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Discussion TLJ Yoda in Episode VIII

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Sequel Trilogy (Released Films)' started by yassir.khan, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. LunarMoth

    LunarMoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 27, 2012
    I'm not trying to validate anytime. Some like it, some dont. That's fine.

    If I'm pushing anything, it's that better choices were available that would have made the exact same point with wide appeal. I don't know if this thread is more positive or negative on this scene, but like many aspects of the film, this scene has a pretty sizable split ad far as I've seen. Here or otherwise.
     
  2. Too-Gon Onbourbon

    Too-Gon Onbourbon Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2016
    Yoda was perfect and correctly portrayed and properly scripted for the first time since Return of the Jedi.
     
    Nate787 likes this.
  3. Wildcatbarry

    Wildcatbarry Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2015
    The RJ Yoda scene in TLJ was taken from an old classic:

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    Wish I could find the TLJ gif of the old sage conking Luke on the head with his cane.
    [Removed]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2018
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  4. IlhamKamaruddin

    IlhamKamaruddin Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2017
    This is amazing. That's a huge reference to The Lion King then! :)
     
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  5. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    While I loved the scene, it does have me wondering one thing - is that supposed to be the first time Luke and Yoda have seen each other since the Endor celebration?

    The image of the ghosts helping Luke train Jedi IS admittedly silly. Imagine more than half your teachers being dead guys who show up all sparkly glowy, but it's crazy to think at least one of them didn't show up over three decades to give Luke guidance, especially after the incident with Ben
     
  6. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Luke did shut himself off from the Force, and badmouthing the Jedi (he gives blame to Kenobi in TLJ) wouldn’t have made him their most popular person in any case.
     
  7. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    It’s supposed to be the first time they have met since Ben turned and killed everyone. Luke cut off his connection this the ghosts could not contact him.
     
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  8. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Hm, true. At the very least, it's probably been 10-15 years since that point, so a while either way

    Has it been established in new canon is only Force-sensitives can see the ghosts?
     
  9. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Kylo turned on Luke at most 6 years before TLJ.

    No it has not been established that non Force users can see ghosts or not.
     
  10. ObidioJuan

    ObidioJuan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2002
    Obi-wan: "Yoda will always be with you" -ROTJ

    Obi-wan spoke to Luke in the battle of Yavin.
    Obi-wan appeared to Luke on Hoth after the escaped the cave.
    Obi-wan speaks to Luke and Yoda on Dagobah several times during the training and before Luke goes to Cloud city.
    Obi-wan appears to Luke after Yoda dies in ROTJ
    Obi-wan, Yoda and Anakin appear to Luke on Endor at the celebration.

    Seems like during the OT, Obi-wan, Yoda and even Anakin were really engaged as ghosts and then they vanished when Luke needed them the most?!
    BAH!
     
  11. ewoksimon

    ewoksimon Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 26, 2009
    It's not that they vanished, rather that Luke cut himself off from the Force and them by extension.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  12. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    Yep. People just don’t seem to properly grasp the plot points of this movie.
     
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  13. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    More like it's poorly-explained and shows how Rian didn't give a crap about what came before.
     
  14. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    They outright state Luke cut himself off from the Force.

    Did you not hear that or do you just ignore it?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  15. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    No I heard it, I just found it to be bullcrap and further proof of how Rian didn't understand this character at all. And I will not apologize for feeling that way, ever.
     
  16. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I’m still waiting for a coherent explanation of how Rian “didn’t give a crap about what came before” as well. All I’ve really seen is talk about feelings.
     
  17. Thrawn082

    Thrawn082 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 11, 2014
    I'll give you one example right away. You know, even if I could forgive EVERYTHING else about this movie, the part about
    Rian not even allowing the fans the respect of seeing Luke's reaction to learning of Han's death, but of course Rey gets to have a reaction to it. [/SPOLER]

    ALONE would have angered me. I rarely get flat out angry when watching a film. Disappointing, sure, annoyed, ok, but angry, not often. But THAT, THAT made me angry (and not in a good way).

    Or Obi Wan and/or Anakin not showing up here despite it making total sense for them to do so.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  18. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    What’s that got to do with Yoda and Force ghosts? Nothing.
     
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  19. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    “Not even allowing fans”

    This gets to the crux of the matter. A film isn’t made to “allow” fans the things they want to see. A film is made to work as a film.
     
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  20. CEB

    CEB Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2014
    This is goalpost moving. You said it’s “poorly explained”, and themoth countered you by reminding you that it was explained outright in the film. You then changed tack to “I found it to be bullcrap”; literally changing a complaint about something’s execution, to a complaint that it shouldn’t have been done at all.

    Virtually all of the complaints are coming down to this; “I didn’t personally like the story choices”. That’s fine, but it’s tedious how every aspect of the film is being ripped apart based on how much sense it supposedly makes, when the film actually is coherent and clear, but just goes in a direction some really dont like.
     
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  21. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Johnson was asked if he had considered Obi-Wan or Anakin as the Force ghosts in the Collider Q&A and said that he had. He liked Yoda best at helping Luke break through his issues and also mentioned that as much as he loves Ewan’s portrayal of Obi-Wan, he felt the Force Ghost that Luke had associated with in the OT was the Alec Guinness version and so even an aged Ewan might not work as well in dynamic as having the original Yoda puppet back helping him with wisdom. Presumably the same logic would apply for Hayden there in a speaking role of that much requirement with Luke there.

    I think he made the right choice. Yoda was wonderful.
     
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  22. themoth

    themoth Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2015
    I agree with Rian. It remains consistent with the classic trilogy by using Yoda. They don't need to explain Obi-Wan's younger appearance.
     
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  23. TK327

    TK327 Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    May 7, 2001
    The Yoda/Luke scene is an absolute highlight of the film for me. It’s a scene where I think Rian was able to bottle a little lightning from the OT. I was transported back to 1980, and experiencing this film as my younger self. The chemistry between these characters was still completely intact. It’s from this point on that I was totally onboard with the film and thinking—this is genuine Star Wars!

    ETA Ewan as Ben wouldn’t have achieved the same effect. Not even close.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  24. Ender_and_Bean

    Ender_and_Bean Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    The Yoda scene is pivotal for several reasons:

    It’s our first time seeing him chronologically like that since ROTJ

    He has some incredible lines and does help remind of Luke’s many weaknesses in the past.

    He helps Luke breakthrough his block again as he had before. You think the Jedi Order is really what’s bothering you? Okay. Let’s see. Lightening. Don’t feel any better, do you? That’s because as flawed as the Jedi Order has been it’s largely been the personal flaws of the leaders in it who lead to problems. Including all of them.

    The line about the library containing nothing that the girl Rey doesn’t have already was genius and a great twist later with her scavenging the ancient Jedi texts.

    It’s likely the first time Luke had spoken to Yoda in years as well since he shut himself off from the Force.

    Luke has also seen first hand just how special Rey’s potential is and that Ben Solo has taken a liking to her. To hear Yoda also state that “Lose Ben Solo we did. Lose Rey we must not” helps Luke to realize his instincts are still good and that she could be the source of Light he hoped would rise in the absence of the Jedi in the first place but that the Jedi and its texts can help play a role in ensuring she reaches her vast Light side potential.

    The line with teachers / parents and students / children is perfect and a new Yoda classic and as they stare out at the natural beauty of fire that will ultimately lead to rebirth and are connected again it’s spiritual and magical and everything just keeps getting more and more amazing from there. Presumably Yoda also tells him she had taken the texts out later and that’s also how Luke knows that he will not be the Last Jedi.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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  25. Pro Scoundrel

    Pro Scoundrel New Films Lawgiver & Casual Flyer star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Yoda works better for me than Obi-Wan would have, even if they had Alec Guinness. Yoda espouses wisdom better than any other character in Star Wars, and that's what the scene needed. A scene with Luke and Anakin could have been really cool, but I just don't see Hayden pulling off wisdom nearly as well as Yoda.
     
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