Yoda living on Coruscant is wrong.

I agree completely with author Binary_Sunset, and calling him an eidiot (sic) isn't the best response to come with, when he is clearly right.

Yoda, as an established character, is ruined by the way he is presented in "Episode I" / "II".

The Council could have been on Coruscant, but the wisest of all Jedi lived on a hidden world, where only the most promising Force Users would go to be trained.
In this way, we wouldn't even have to have Yoda in the prequels, thereby increasing the power of the story when Luke first confronts him, and the meeting remains as magical as it was before the prequels appeared.

Very good, Binary_Sunset. Don't let eidiots fool you

 

I'm confused. People love Yoda, yet they don't want to see him at all in the PT? How strange





St

 

That doesn't really follow, does it? I mean, just because he's on Dagobah, doesn't mean he couldn't appear in the PT.

 

I find it funny this thread comes from someone who doesnt even like Yoda. I remember Binary_Sunset once said the whole Yoda/Dagobah thing should be cut from ESB, IIRC.

 

I LOVE Yoda - in "ESB" and "ROTJ". I HATE the character in the prequels. Is that hard to get?

In the OT the character is introduced in a fantastic way, he's both funny and wise, while he in the PT is boring, misplaced and given very, very poor lines.

 

I disagree with how you feel about him in the PT. Even if your didn't like him in TPM, how can you not at least like a couple of things he does in AOTC. For me:

Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has. How emberrasing, how emberrasing

Is one of Yoda's best lines

I also like his fear speech in TPM:

Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering

I got chills



Wow, I've skidded off topic haven't I? Sorry




ST

 

Well's there is no point discussing something as subjective as how you interpret a character. Like his lines if you must. But from a professional view, Yoda's character isn't any good in the PT. I like some of his lines, of course, but most of the lines are too repetitive.
And "Begun this Clone War" has ... what a lame line. Worst line in the saga so far, even worse than any of Panaka's.

 

Hmmm...Yoda is the last thing that this basher would bash. *shrug* Ah well.

Anyway, again for me I expected Yoda to be on Coruscant, thanks to Zahn's books.

 

I don't want to get into an argument, but I can't help but wonder, why is it lame?

Also, "this" is actually "the":

Begun, the Clone War has





ST

 

I love the Clone War line. Best Yoda line though:

"Around the survivors, a perimeter create!"

 

From a professional complainer's point of view, everything sucked about all of the SW films.

 

Personally I'm not bashing the film. I'm quite happy with the all of the films so far. What I'm expressing is more how I would have done the film if I were making it myself. It's got to do with how I precieve the character of Yoda and how we think that character is better portrayed.

The fact is that Yoda had to be on coruscant for the movie to work. We couldn't fly off to Dagobah or something everytime we wanted to see Yoda. But there are ways around this. They could have had a few Yoda scenes set in a garden in the Jedi temple. This way we could have seen where Yoda prefered to spend his time and the sense of the Taoist master would have been more apparent. As it is, he comes off as more of a wizard than a spiritual leader.

 

The films were all good except for some stuff in TPM. Now of course there are some members who will dispise you for not loving every single frame of every SW film but then again, those are the same people who had been raised with a banana and an innertube.

 

From TPM novel hardcover, chapter 3, page 27:

The Jedi Master sighed. While none of this was his concern, he could not ignore the implications of what it meant if he failed. The Jedi Knights were peacemakers; that was the nature of their order and the dictate of their creed. For thousands of years they had served the Republic, a constant source of stability and order in a changing universe. Founded as a theological and philosophical study group so far back that its origins were the stuff of myth, the Jedi had only gradually become aware of the presence of the Force. Years had been spent in its study, in contemplation of its meaning, in mastery of its power. Slowly the order had evolved, abandoning its practice of and belief in a life of of isolated meditation in favor of a more outward-looking commitment to social responsibility. Understanding the Force sufficiently to master its power required more than private study. It require service to the greater community and implementation of a system of laws that would guarantee equal justice for all. The battle was not yet won. It probably never would be. but the Jedi Knights would not see it lost for lack of their trying.

Now, I think the Jedi's duty goes far beyond training other Jedi and personal affinity to the Force. In fact, one could argue that the Jedi's greatest responsibility is to help the galaxy in any way possible. By the time of the OT, Yoda could not serve the galaxy by hanging around Coruscant. It would get him killed in a premature death.

You're a Christian, are you not, Binary? Let me ask you a question:

Which do you think Christ would expect of you? To exile yourself to Siberia so you can remove yourself from surrounding sin, and the cares of this world in order to spend my time in prayer or Bible study? Or, would you believe that he would want you where you could share the joy that Christ has given you with others, and depend on His help to combat the sin and troubles?

I know personal relationship with Christ is important, but if that were all that is important God would take us to heaven the moment we got saved. We're left here to share the Gospel with others, not just train those who already believe or develop our personal relationship with God in what is really a selfish gesture.

Whether a Jedi or a Christian, life is a learning experience from beginning to end. A Christian never truly learns everything in God's will in life, nor does a 900 year old Jedi master learn everything there is to know about the Force. Isolation will not change that. The key is to learn everything we can, and as we learn to share that with others.

As far a storytelling standpoint goes, I think it's a good foil between the OT and the PT.

 

Twink_Kee, very well said.

 

I don't like the bureaucratic feel the Jedi Council has in TPM.

Perhaps that is why they failed. There were too many committees and leaders, not enough direction. They were out in the open and easily controled because of it. Perhaps the Jedi fell because of their being centrally located, being control by a group of twelve people wo sit in the same room everyday. Hmmm?

 

In Kurosawa's Seven Samurai, the main Samurai is a ronin, a wandering warrior looking to help those in need.

The idea of the Jedi all ensconsced inside a temple waiting for a crisis to erupt is dumb, plain and simple.

I don't really think your idea of Dagobah is correct though Binary. I always thought that was where he went to hideout.

I like the idea of Yoda being from his own planet. Yodooine?

 

Plenty of Jedi are not in the temple it's just where the Council chooses to meet and where Yoda trains students. I think this is one of the most nitpicky things I have ever heard. Jedi do not hang out in the wild, why would they?

 

You can't work a corporate job in New York and live in Costa Rica

 

"Jedi do not hang out in the wild, why would they?"

What in the world are you talking about? We're not talking about Tarzan the Jedi, we're talking about the Jedi being more dynamic and free-spirited rather than waiting around to get the ax.

Gushers cannot have it both ways. On one hand you say "But TPM needed to be this way to show the innocence that was lost so it'll seem more tragic."

On the other "But the Jedi are being shown in decline. We have to see this"

Which one is it?

 

Gushers cannot have it both ways. On one hand you say "But TPM needed to be this way to show the innocence that was lost so it'll seem more tragic."

On the other "But the Jedi are being shown in decline. We have to see this"

Which one is it?

Why can there not be both? ? We do need to see the galaxy at peace (TPM), and flaws in the Jedi that lead to their downfall (AOTC).

 

Woody 1138 wrote: "I find it hard to believe that 3 years later people are still finding new ways to bash this film. There's a new Star Wars film out that is full of new things to whine and moan about."

I dislike AOTC even more than I dislike TPM; and I think that Yoda's character was diluted even more in AOTC than in TPM. So why did I post this here? Three reasons:

1. This thread is about the entire PT, so this forum is just as appropriate as the AOTC forum.

2. My primary problem with Yoda in AOTC is his uncharacteristic belligerence; but that is not the topic of this thread.

3. The AOTC forum has way too many threads already.

 

Well you can't expect someone who didn't even like TESB to like AOTC. I really think you should give up on Star Wars.

 

Wingless, you took the words right out of my mouth:


"The important thing is not how much life is on these planets, but what kind of life. On Coruscant it is all hustle and bustle. It's stressed people with mixed up values. There's political backstabbing and stuff and everyone's out for themselves. Generally it's a nasty place. On Dagobah, Yoda was living with the animals. It was real nature. It is a much more serene place."

Yes, that is my response to the many fellow fans who have pointed out that there is a lot of life on Coruscant. Also, remember that there was a lot of life on the Death Star; though it remained a sterile environment.

"From a story telling point of view there's nothing wrong with Yoda on Coruscant. It makes sense, the Jedi temple is there and he is the boss. But from a symbolic/character point of view, it kind of cheapens Yoda."

Actually, I think that the story could be strengthened by having Yoda on Dagobah instead of Coruscant. More on that later.

In ESB he was more like the Taoist master.

Yes! That is the best image of them all. He was more like a Taoist master than anything else. Taoism is known for being a philosophy of inaction. Consult Lao-Tzu's Te-Tao-Ching for details.

"He was immersed in life and lived from a real religious spirit and inner strength. He certainly didn't care about any silly social ladder. But that image has gone, now he is more like a politician/administrator. He's at the top of the social game and I sense no real religious depth in him at all. He seems nothing more than a grumpy old school master."

Precisely.

 

Darth Murder wrote: "In this way, we wouldn't even have to have Yoda in the prequels, thereby increasing the power of the story when Luke first confronts him, and the meeting remains as magical as it was before the prequels appeared."

I think Yoda should have a small role in Episode I, but not be in Eps II and III. Here's what I think would have been better:

Start Ep I with a brief scene on Dagobah. Yoda throws a silver bar into the air, and the young Obi-Wan uses his lightsabre to cut through it with lightning rapidity. Yoda counts the pieces of the bar on the ground: seven. This was the last test. Now Obi-Wan is a Jedi. (Note: This, as a test of Jedi, was shown in the ESB comic adaptation and is obliquely mentioned in the ESB novelization.) Then have Obi-Wan leave for his home planet of Tatooine.

Once there, he gets the young (18 years old) Anakin Skywalker and tells him he can teach him the ways of the Force now, since he (Obi-Wan) is a Jedi. Then they get word from Coruscant that Alderaan has been invaded. So they join the fight to liberate Alderaan (later known as "The Clone Wars"). At the end of the movie, after an important (but not final) victory over the invaders, Obi-Wan returns to Dagobah (alone). He is flush with pride in his prowess during the conflict. Yoda cautions him that he's being too militaristic (remember, "Wars not make one great.")

Finally, Obi-Wan lets slip that he's training an apprentice. Yoda tells him in no uncertain terms that he is far too unexperienced to train anyone. Obi-Wan blows him off and leaves Dagobah, determined to carry on with his "idealistic crusade" to liberate Alderaan by force; and to continue training Anakin. Yoda stands, alone, sadly watching Obi-Wan thunder off in his ship.

Then, for the remainder of the PT, no more Dagobah or Yoda. We don't see Yoda again until Luke meets him in ESB. The whole galaxy has gone right to hell, but Yoda has been patiently waiting on Dagobah to set things right in the correct way: The way of nonviolence. His new pupil ultimately follows Yoda's teachings by refusing to use violence against Vader, as we saw in ROTJ.

In this scenario, right from the very beginning of the saga, we are confronted with two options:

1. To strut around full of piss and wind, cocky and arrogant, mobilizing vast armies with lots of high-tech weaponry, kicking butt and taking names; or

2. To be at peace, calm, and nonviolent; living simply among the rocks and the trees and the birds of the sky.

The saga would then illustrate that option one led to Empire; option two leads to salvation and peace.