PT Yoda mishandled entirely in the prequels?

Recently, my friend and I have been talking about the prequels a lot. We've been discussing the things that were done well, and naturally the plethora of things that failed.

In ESB when we first meet Yoda, we see what we'd first chalk up as some silly, odd alien. For me, he didn't annoy me at all, even before Yoda revealed himself to be Yoda, the playfulness and comedic moments the character brought to us were welcomed warmly. My appreciation for him grew substantially when he was revealed to be Yoda. The fun and games were over, but we were still left with an incredibly wise, patient, and essential character. Luke needed Yoda, and without Yoda's guidance and instruction, Luke's training never would've progressed.

In the PT, I feel that things were different. Although we do still get a few great quotes from Yoda often relating to the dark side and paths to it, I ultimately feel like his character came off more as being a fan service prop, having little to no effect on the story of the PT. We see his wariness of Anakin, but yet his inaction is a constant in the PT. He just makes small comments which don't actually help the story, and often times work against the better interest of the Galaxy, as his "patience" does not seem logical in this context as it was in the OT.
Additionally, I never chalked Yoda up to be a "warrior" so much as nearly unrivaled in his prowess with the force. I thought seeing Yoda wielding a lightsaber and basically becoming a blurry, green thumb print on the screen felt like fan service more than anything else, and deviated away from his true character.
I felt the same thing when I first saw Sidious fight with a lightsaber, as I always felt that his character was beyond that, indicated by his "Take your Jedi weapon" request to Luke. It seemed as though the Emperor felt that these weapons were beneath him.
Ultimately, it almost seems embarrassing that the Jedi Council is unaware of Palpatine's true nature and motives, which when I was younger also made me question Yoda's wisdom. As I've grown up however, I think I give a lot of credit to Sidious and his abilities with the dark side, as I believe that he's debatably the strongest force user we've seen in the films this far.

I know this thread was a little disorganized, but I appreciate it if you were able to make it all the way through! Please let me know what you think, was Yoda mishandled in the PT? Did you like seeing him flipping around with a lightsaber?

 

No, I don't think so. I absolutely love Yoda in ESB, but it's because of the prequels he's become one of my favourite characters. All of his lines are absolutely perfect. And the prequels convinced me he was the embodiment of everything the Jedi stood for.

 

The characters from the PT and from the OT are the same, but in different times. Yoda needs to have a light saber. How else would people learn Lightsaber fighting the correct way? Or for self defense? The force is very powerful but a light saber is also a valuable tool that helps within the construct. Yoda also never ran, as he was too old for running around(damn you TCW)...

That aside, I can see your concern. Did he feel like fan service? Yes and no. The fight in AOTC felt a little tacked on be it served purpose. However, the real matter is this...Is it more important to have yoda integrated into the PT or have the focus where it is more important(Anikan,Obi-Wan etc)...

To Sidious, he only used it twice. After all the Jedi were killed, he had no use for them later, so of course he doesn't care about them.

ESB Yoda was more of the cliche. He was the classic Cambells wise ol master, which I still love

PT Yoda is actually where we saw his ideals of the Jedi order.

 

Have you noticed all your criticisms are based off the expectations you set from the OT?

Personally I didnt have an issue with Yoda, character wise. Watching the films chronologically he seemed like the embodiment of the Jedi order at that time, and I don't mean that in a positive sense - he was too cautious, too beholden to rules, and all-in-all too comfy in his lofty position to be effective in curbing danger. Folklore has penned Yoda as this almighty wise sage character but he has plenty of faults and the PT showed them, and now people don't like that the character didn't match what they had presumed. That's how it comes across to me anyways.

 

I think the sequence where Yoda puts down his cane and fights and jumps around like crazy is actually more plausible than most people think. For example the founder of Aikido when he was old would be brought out on a stretcher looking very frail. But then he would get up, gather his strength, and be able to throw around young guys for a short time like it was nothing. There are many such examples of eastern martial arts masters who are still able to do their stuff well into their nineties. So I don't think it's a stretch that Yoda, who of all the jedi is probably the one most in tune with the force, would be able to sustain a level of physical exertion and speed that would seem unnatural for his age. That's what the force allows you to do. You can see he only did it as a last resort and that he appeared drained afterwards.

 

I stopped reading after this utterly false proposition.

 

PT Yoda is GOAT

 

Totally inappropriate.

 

Yikes. With all due respect, you might want to look up the definition of "absolute," as I made damn well sure to refrain from absolute statements, and merely was stating my opinion. I love Yoda, and every remark I made about him was prefaced with "I think" or "I believe" which semantically is indicative that I am stating my opinion. Sorry my post rubbed you the wrong way, I'll think harder before I post my opinion which is meant to lead into interesting discourse next time. I agree though that it's logical that he would use and wield a lightsaber, but as the senior member of the council, it seems as though he would rarely have cause to use it. Apologies again for upsetting you and sorry for getting defensive, I just feel as though you deliberately neglected the fact that this was typed from my own perspective.

 

That's fair. Agree to disagree. No movie is without error, the PT is definitely not exempt from this. I respect your opinion though.

 

Very true. I'm not doubting Yoda's abilities. I guess more than anything, I felt that it came out of nowhere and was more meant as fan service. I totally see what you're saying though! Thanks for the comment!

 

PT Yoda was just sitting around talking and did the occasional fighting. The prequels added absolutely nothing to his character, so I can't really say he was ruined.

 

You and your friend have to understand that what you guys have is a OPINION so stop coming here and stating absolutes. I loved Yoda in the prequels sorry you you couldn't see the greatness of his character, I like how he was able to foreshadow a 9 year old Anakin Skywalker was dangerous and was skeptical of training him due to his fear, I like seeing him as the leader of the Jedi council throughout the movies and yes their is nothing wrong with Yoda using a lightsaber. How stupid would it be to have one of the greatest Jedi masters of all time incapable of engaging in combat with a lightsaber. As Yoda says in Empire Strikes Back, judge me by my size do you? It's like people are assuming because he is this little peaceful Jedi master that he is not capable of self defense in combat which is idiotic. Try harder next time![/quote]


Yikes. With all due respect, you might want to look up the definition of "absolute," as I made damn well sure to refrain from absolute statements, and merely was stating my opinion. I love Yoda, and every remark I made about him was prefaced with "I think" or "I believe" which semantically is indicative that I am stating my opinion. Sorry my post rubbed you the wrong way, I'll think harder before I post my opinion which is meant to lead into interesting discourse next time. I agree though that it's logical that he would use and wield a lightsaber, but as the senior member of the council, it seems as though he would rarely have cause to use it. Apologies again for upsetting you and sorry for getting defensive, I just feel as though you deliberately neglected the fact that this was typed from my own perspective.[/quote]

Only Siths deal in absolutes...Right?

 

not entirely.

 

Yip.

Apologies to the O.P, but sometimes I get the feeling a lot of newcomers who joined after the high of TFA I guess, see this part of the board and think, "oh - that must be where you go to complain about the prequels..."

It could be I guess, it's a free world but these films are at least 10 years old. 10 years. It's nearly 17 since TPM was released.

Think how long that is...The Beatles were only together for about a decade, and saw the move from rock 'n roll, the summer of love, the development and fall of hippy culture, the start of the 70's and ushered in a new era of high pop art. From boy band to multi tracked acid rockers. That is a long time.

So the dust has sort of settled round these parts - kinda.

Any posts like, was 'was Anakins turn to fast? Should Yoda have fought? How come she remembers her mother? Should Anakin have been so young ? Can you say AOTC is a good film?' etc etc have become hardy perenials, or weeds depending on your point of view.

In short round here people quite like the films, or indeed love them and think they are every bit the equel of the others, or may even prefer them.

It is not some place were it is just accepted a priori that they are failures - but interesting artifacts to discuss nevertheless.

 

OP's questions are legit. I may disagree, but it is a good discussion.

 

ESB showed that Yoda had a sense of humor. I would have liked to see a little more humor from Yoda in the PT. Particularly in the lighter moments like when he was training younglings.

 

Yoda's humor in TESB was based on his testing Luke. Once he drops the disguise, he's no longer humorous. There's just the funny bit with his reaction to Luke about to fall and his falling with him.

 

"Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has. How ... embarrassing."

 

Meh, there could have been some better jokes in there.

 

Yikes. With all due respect, you might want to look up the definition of "absolute," as I made damn well sure to refrain from absolute statements, and merely was stating my opinion. I love Yoda, and every remark I made about him was prefaced with "I think" or "I believe" which semantically is indicative that I am stating my opinion. Sorry my post rubbed you the wrong way, I'll think harder before I post my opinion which is meant to lead into interesting discourse next time. I agree though that it's logical that he would use and wield a lightsaber, but as the senior member of the council, it seems as though he would rarely have cause to use it. Apologies again for upsetting you and sorry for getting defensive, I just feel as though you deliberately neglected the fact that this was typed from my own perspective.[/quote]

Only Siths deal in absolutes...Right?[/quote]

Did you get the feeling that I was being absolutist? I really wasn't trying to be.

 

I was only joking young lad...

 

Thank you. I'm by no means saying that the prequels were horrible and unneeded. But to say they're without fault is just damn right stubborn. The PT had some of my favorite moments in star wars, as well as my least favorites. I think that the PT was ultimately beneficial and important to the overarching story, diminishing any notions of it not needing to happen. I don't like the notion that people seem to have that if you're skeptical about any part of the story or downright dislike certain elements, you can't be a true can. Only a Sith deals in absolutes at the end of the day, I just love star wars and I love talking about it with amicable people

 

Ezon Pin


OP's questions are legit. I may disagree, but it is a good discussion.

Of course, I just wish there was some place else to put these now. I dunno, if you drop in in the year 2025, will "Is Rey a Mary Sue?" still be an exciting proposition? Will people still be asking that? Will people still be saying - "OMG they changed the noise of the droid on the direct holo-vison implant editon ?!"

I suppose people who are ten now might be writing a thesis then....so...life goes on I guess !

AKyloTantrum OK, fair enough ! Ignore me. I am old - and grumpy sometimes.

 

Can never tell online. Lol
Thanks, I don't know where the other person got the idea that I was... Oh, well.