Yoda (ROTJ) Comments Juxtaposed With Anakin (AOTC) Comments

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by KosmicKnine, Mar 20, 2003.

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  1. KosmicKnine Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    As I sit here watching ROTJ, it just hit me about a comment Yoda makes before he dies while talking to Luke.

    "LUKE: Master Yoda, you can't die.

    YODA: Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong."

    This comment got me to wondering if it has any significance in or connection to Anakin's comment in AOTC during the confession scene.

    "ANAKIN: I will even learn to stop people from dying."

    Is there a possible connection? Does Yoda's ROTJ comment hint at Anakin actually learning something? Does any of it have a connection to the "disappearing Jedi" phenomenon?
  2. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    I'm wondering if perhaps this topic wouldn't be better suited to 3SA, but I'll let DA make that call.

    I think that what Yoda's saying is that even those strongest in the Force cannot stop death. It's inevitable. Anakin will never learn to stop people from dying, regardless of how badly he wants it.
  3. OldieVonMoldie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2001
    star 3
    It has always been a pet theory of mine that even with the suit, it is really the power of the dark side that is helping to keep Vader alive. Also, as you said & as GL stated in the AOTC director's commentary, Anakin's road to ruin is his inability to let go. He can't accept his mother's death & seeks the power that will truly let him "stop people from dying". The irony is that only at the end is he ready to let go.

    "Luke, help me take this mask off."
    "But you'll die."
    "NOTHING can prevent that now."
  4. Leonard_Shelby Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 6
    I personally think that Anakin exclaiming "I will even learn to stop people from dieing!" was nothing more than a mere irrational comment made in a fit of rage and emotions. But I could be wrong...and that could be a major plot point for Episode III too...we shall see...I think it may be...in the sense of him being seduced to the Dark Side to protect Padme...to stop her from dieing...but other than that...I'm not sure...just seems like a comment made from grief, anger, and sadness...I know I've said some tripped-out stuff when I was mad or sad...


    Anakin has trouble with change...he doesn't like it...and he'll do anything to prevent the change from happening...even moreso now that his mother has died. His undoing is that he'll form a huge attachment to Padme, and Palpatine will more than likely use that attachment to seduce him to the Dark Side.


    Remember Vader's comment to Luke in ROTJ to bait him out of hiding and to convert him? "Give yourself to the Dark Side...it is the only way you can save your friends..." I think Palpatine will use a method like this to seduce Anakin... "Give yourself to the Dark Side...it is the only way you can protect Padme..." Or something to that effect... ;)



    Shelby
  5. The_Anakin_Wannabe Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2003
    star 4
    I think that what Yoda's saying is that even those strongest in the Force cannot stop death. It's inevitable. Anakin will never learn to stop people from dying, regardless of how badly he wants it.

    I have always taken this comment to mean that someone suitably strong enough with the Force could live forever. "Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong" comes across to me as - If I was stronger, then I could have lived forever. If this is true, then Anakin is the only person who could live forever.
  6. OldieVonMoldie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 23, 2001
    star 3
    "I think it may be...in the sense of him being seduced to the Dark Side to protect Padme...to stop her from dieing"


    I agree completely & this has also been one of my "pet theories" frequently debated on the 3SA board.

    Many feel that Padme's death will be the "final straw" that pushes Anakin to the dark side. I feel that might be the only way he can actually save her.
  7. KosmicKnine Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    If this is true, then Anakin is the only person who could live forever.

    And it makes his decision to save Luke at the expense of his own life even more powerful a moment!
  8. Leonard_Shelby Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 6
    I have always taken this comment to mean that someone suitably strong enough with the Force could live forever. "Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong" comes across to me as - If I was stronger, then I could have lived forever. If this is true, then Anakin is the only person who could live forever.

    Wow. This is kind of a new twist on it that I haven't really considered. I suppose with Anakin's strength in the Force (being the most powerful Jedi) coupled with his suit that keeps him alive...he could--theoretically--live forever. Unless he was killed in combat or some other means... (ie saving his son from the Emperor) Cool...this adds kind of a cool concept that I didn't think of... :)


    Many feel that Padme's death will be the "final straw" that pushes Anakin to the dark side. I feel that might be the only way he can actually save her.

    I agree. I think that Anakin will be initially seduced to the Dark Side because Palpatine will manipulate him and show him the advantages it has (ie getting more powerful FASTER which will allow him to protect Padme and "stop her from dieing").

    I think the final straw will be the death of Padme...Anakin will totally take the Dark Side as his own...stewing in yet another failure...and Obi-Wan will try to turn him back, resulting in his massive injuries. It is then that Anakin will let go of all humanity and fully embrace the Dark Side forever... ;)


    I also like how Lucas is showing Anakin's turn. It all boils down to one word: LOVE. It was Anakin's love for his mother that started his turn towards the Dark Side. I feel it will be his love for Padme that will drive him totally towards the Dark Side...since it's quicker and easier to get the power he needs to keep her safe...and it will also destroy him in the process...

    The same can be said for his redemption at the end of ROTJ. His love for Luke is what made him sacrifice himself to save him...what drove him AWAY from the Dark Side... ;)

    As I like to say: "Love drove him to the Dark Side, and love drove him out..." :)


    If that makes sense... :p



    And it makes his decision to save Luke at the expense of his own life even more powerful a moment!

    I totally agree. Man, I love the PT. It has added so much more to the original movies it's not even funny... :)



    Shelby
  9. Gobi-1 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2002
    star 5
    This is what I belive the entire Star Wars Saga boils down too.

    LOVE is more POWERFUL then the FORCE.

    I can see that nearly all of major plot points revoled around LOVE.

    The Jedi not allowing LOVE is what lead to their destruction. If Jedi were allowed to LOVE and get married there would be many more jedi in the galaxy and a never ending supply of Jedi.

    Now the Jedi do not allow Love because your emotions toward your wife of husband could be used to agaisnt you and cause you to rush in to something unprepared for.

    But I say the benifits of LOVE are far graeter then the dangers. One will fight stronger to protect the one they LOVE.

    Now the LOVE rule that Anakin broke was what saved the Jedi from complete destruction. If Anakin had not fallen in LOVE with Padme they whould not have had Luke and Leia who whould go on to save the galaxy. If Anakin had not loved Padme are his children Luke whould have be destroyed.

    Now Palpatine I belive has never felt LOVE because he was entirely EVIL. Because of this he could not sense Anakin and Luke feeling each other's prensense.

    Vader "I have felt him my Master."

    Palpatine "Strange that I have not."

    Vader was not sensing Luke thru the dark side of the force as Palpatine whould he sensed his son as Anakin thru the light side because deep down he LOVED his son.

    We can also see that Anakin whould have never been trained if Obi-Wan did not LOVE his master Qui-Gon. One can see that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon LOVED each other as a father and a son. Obi-Wan LOVED and respected Qui-Gon so much that he went against Yoda in training Anakin.

    We also see brotherly and sisterly LOVE between Luke and Leia. If they had not this conection they whould not have been able to communicate with each other thru the force. They loved each other as friends or like a brother or sister even though they did not no they were family yet.

    I have went on a lttle bit bit too long. Sorry. :)

  10. son-of-skywalker13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 2
    i agree except for one thing ...
    "LOVE is more POWERFUL then the FORCE."
    if you change it to Love is more Powerful then the DARK Side OF THE FORCE, i think you have it. THe good side of the force is love, unfortunately the jedi didnt look at it this way, which led to their destruction.

    The only way that Luke could have been saved, and he was the only one who knew this, not obiwan or yoda, was by ebing saved from his father. He knew the only thing that could save him was love and thats why he didnt listen to Obi wan when obi said that he was more machine than man, twisted and evil. LUKE KNEW IT WAS THE ONLY WAY, and tried to turn vader.
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