Yoda Teetering on the Dark Side Too?

Are you absolutely certain that Mace doesn't fear the loss of the Republic? He cannot see that he has already lost. As Obi-wan said, there are alternatives to fighting. He walked right into Palpatine's trap, because he went in out of fear and used anger when Palpatine attacked him.

 

Why doesn't Yoda go into immediate exile after he and Obi-Wan infiltrate the
Jedi temple and discover the full truth (Sidious and Vader)?

Yoda: Destroy the Sith, we must.

Both Yoda and Mace, not to mention Obi-Wan, fought the Sith to preserve the Jedi way;
which would be extinct if the Sith had their way.

 

I see that Mace understands his duty as a Jedi Master is to go and do what he can destroy the Sith and at that moment it was to go try and kill him. Palpatine's arrogance caused him to underestimate Mace which is why the Dark Lord was almost destroyed however, he trapped Mace by exploiting the Jedi Master's newfound trust in Anakin knowing that he could use this to turn Skywalker to the Dark Side.

 

Yah. That's all I see happening, too. I don't see Mace drawing on the darkside at all.

 

But to get Mace to change his mind, he had to provoke him. That's the part you miss. He angered Mace with his barrage of lighting. If Mace was thinking as clearly, he wouldn't have fallen for Palpatine's shenanigans.

 

You're assuming it's anger. Mace was right, arresting Palpatine would have been useless.

 

You're assuming it's not anger. Yes, Palpatine was too dangerous. But now was not the time to kill Palpatine. That was his mistake.

 

It wasn't, but only because Anakin was so emotionally unbalanced.

 

So do you honestly believe that if Mace had agreed with Anakin, and gone for the arrest, that everything would've worked out well?

 

Sidious would've jumped up and kicked his ass while they were arguing over who gets to put the cuffs on.

 

Mace should have not hesitated and just sliced and dice. Better yet...He walks in to the Chancellor's office.

Palpatine: Master Windu. I take it General Grievous has been destroyed then. I must say, you're here sooner...

Mace:[Mace throws his lit saber into Palpatine's chest]

Palpatine: GACK!

[Palpatine starts to gag for air that is being sucked out of his chest from the hole]

Mace: Oh, I'm sorry, did I break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. I believe you were saying something about "best intentions."

Palpatine: GACK! GACK! GACK!

 

You mean Mace and Anakin would be like two fourteen year old girls on the phone:
Mace: You put the cuffs on him
Anakin: No, you do it!
Mace: No, you do it!
Anakin: No, you do it!
Mace: No, You do it!

And so it continues for infinity, unless either their mothers comes and tells them to hang up (or shut up) or Palpatines goes - "I'll put them on myself, just shut the hell up" or he gets really fed up and kicks their ass. The third scenario would be Palpatine being all parental, kicking their asses, lecturing them about making decisions, then chosing to put the cuffs on.

Which one do you find most believable?face_grin]

 

Things would've gone differently, better or not is subjective. So long as Mace doesn't give in to his emotions and stops doing what Palpatine wants him to do. Everything Mace and the other Jedi do, save for the most minute of details, was what Palpatine wanted them to do. He played them so easily that they couldn't even see it.

 

If Anakin stood there frozen like a deer in headlights, Mace would have finished him off.

So you are saying that Palp wanted to be killed? If he was great! War's over. Chaos ensues until the dust settles and things get back to normal. Anakin would have gone back to his wife. Everyone would be happy.

 

No, Palpatine wanted to goad Mace into killing him, so that Anakin would be forced to choose. So that Anakin would do what he wanted him to do. It was a gamble on his part, but Palpatine knew that the boy's greed would win out. If he didn't believe otherwise, he would have plenty of time to stop Mace.

 

Palpatine wanted Mace to beat him?

He tried to stop Mace. He simply failed at it until Vader arrived.

 

Considering Palpatine goes from being a completely defeated helpless old man to all-powerful Sith Lord in about half a second after Anakin cuts off Mace's hands, I think there is sufficient evidence to back you up on this. I have long maintained that Palpatine was pretending to be weaker than he was, based on his sudden "recovery". You don't go from "help me Anakin, I am too weak" to "UNLIMITED POWER!!!!!" that quickly unless you were faking the weakness part. If he had really been that weak, he wouldn't have been able to recover that quickly, and if he was only pretending, it makes sense from a storyline standpoint in forcing Anakin to choose, and it fits in with Palpatine's personality anyway. He has been pretending to be someone he isn't his entire life, so pretending to be weaker to manipulate the situation with Anakin is entirely within his character. It also gives him the chance to gloat. Imagine Mace's surprise when after Anakin turns, Palpatine immediately bounces back, revealing that he had been faking it, and that Mace had no chance? That way, Palpatine gets a chance to humiliate Mace one more time before he kills him. Entirely within the character of a Sith Lord.

 

Palpatine was definietly not as weak as he was pretending but he was honestly losing.

 

Then what if Anakin had simply blocked Mace's saber stroke?

Mace would either reason with Anakin, or Mace would have to duel Anakin also - and then Palpatine would be without an apprentice

 

And yeah, Starwalker is correct when saying that Palpatine wanted to kill Mace. After all, Anakin wanted to side with the strongest. If Palpatine had successfully killed all the Jedi Masters, Anakin would join him in his search for more power - Palpatine knew this, and therefore had nothing to lose by killing Mace!

 

I don't think he planned to lose the duel, but he needed Anakin to believe that his life was in danger, which in turn endangers Padme.

Yes, but after that moment, he had to goad Mace into changing his mind. Which in turn prompted Anakin to make up his mind.

 

It does, but if you have Palpatine demonstrating the power of the Dark Side by killing even someone 'as powerful as Master Windu.' it could have a similar effect on Anakin as it would concretely demonstrate to him that the Dark Side really can do things the Jedi can't.

Agreed.

 

Anakin's already aware that Jedi Masters can be killed by Sith Lords. It would've helped, but it was not as efficent as making Palpatine look like a victim in all of this. He plays up fear, which increases Anakin's own fears and thus leads to the other emotions.

 

It worked better for Palpatine the way it did, but that doesn't mean he needed Anakin to see him rendered helpless by a Jedi Master, seeing them dueling with sabers would have been effective as well.

 

Anakin desired power. He wanted to become more powerful than any Jedi or any Sith. He consequently wanted to side with the strongest. Palpatine's best move would therefore be to destroy all the Jedi and thus showing his supreme powers. He could further argue to Anakin that if Anakin didn't join him, the Jedi would come after him once again, more numerous, and his secret would be lost.

Anakin would join him no matter - he left the Jedi Temple subconsciously to join him...