Yoda to Luke: Ah, father. Powerful Jedi was he...powerful Jedi.

I've been thinking lately about Yoda's first meeting with Luke. Among other things, it would appear that Yoda is directly addressing the nature of the Force with Luke. And, this includes the concept of power as it relates to Anakin.

Before Luke knows who Yoda really is, Yoda addresses how physical power relates to the Force:

Yoda: I am wondering, why are you here?
Luke: I'm looking for someone.
Yoda: Looking? Found someone, you have, I would say, hmmm?
Luke: Right...
Yoda: Help you I can. Yes, mmmm.
Luke: I don't think so. I'm looking for a great warrior.
Yoda: Ohhh. Great warrior. [laughs and shakes his head] Wars not make one great.

Greatness isn't defined by your prowess as a warrior. there is a more spiritual aspect to it. Yet, in the same conversation, Yoda addresses Anakin's prowess or "power" as a Jedi:

Yoda: Why wish you become Jedi?
Luke: Mostly because of my father, I guess.
Yoda: Ah, father. Powerful Jedi was he, powerful Jedi.
Luke: How could you know my father? You don't even know who I am. I don't even know what I'm doing here. We're wasting our time.

But, what I see that brings this whole thing together is Yoda's take on strength in the Force during his last moments in RoTJ:

LUKE: Master Yoda, you can't die.
YODA : Strong am I with the Force... but not that strong! Twilight is upon me and soon night must fall. That is the way of things ... the way of the Force.

The Way of the Force involves an acceptance of your own mortality, your own limitations in terms of power.

So, this basically got me thinking about that first meeting and Yoda's reference to Anakin as a "powerful Jedi." Anakin was physically powerful. In ESB, as Vader, he stresses the immediate result of turning to the Dark Side: "You don't know the power of the Dark Side."

Was this Yoda's first lesson to Luke concerning the nature of the Force? (True strength or power is not the exercise of power but the acceptance of the natural order of The Force)

I think Yoda is getting at the greater concept here. Anakin wasn't really as powerful as perceived. He was certainly physically powerful, but at the expense of spiritual weakness: TRUE WEAKNESS. Like himself, Vader's "power" was mortal, fleeting.

Thoughts?

 

No Yoda fans out there?

 

I read this earlier, and wondered why nobody had responded. I suppose because it's quite a complicated post and the majority of people reading this are all wtf does this mean?

I like the idea you stated.

 

I might be getting confused, but Yoda is admitting the Anakin is a powerful Jedi as far as power over the force goes, but he is also saying that that is NOT what makes someone GREAT.

Did I answer a question of just rephrase it?

 

yes theres a fan. personally i always thought that most all things master yoda said was a lesson. one of the great things about that charactor is his wisdom in all things and his ability to translate that to others. its kinda funny that a muppet was able to effect so many in the world outside of our interests. i know people that are not star wars fans, know little to nothing about it, but some of what the master jedi said is known. because of the innerpeace of it i guess...very zen

i hope that made sense

 

im glad im not the only one that was a little confused, but i think i get it. hopefully you guys know what im saying





ill shut up now

 

Hi JediSF,

I enjoy talking about the philosophical side of these movies and Yoda is one of my favorite subjects.

I believe there is a good/bad to everything. Just look at the very things we need to survive. We need air to breathe, but if we have too much of it (hurricane, falling out of a plane) we can die. We need water to drink, but if we have too much of that (drowning) we can die. The Force can be applied in the same way. It can be applied to help and defend others who cannot do it themselves, to help the survival of the Republic in the movies. However, it can also be applied to meet one's own needs or desires, in a drastic and even deadly way if neccessary. Vader's "spiritual weakness", as you put it, was indeed that and led to him mis-applying the Force to his own means and ends. Now, Ani was more powerful than any Jedi during the time of the Republic. But that power was used by Vader to destroy instead of defend. That is probably why they have a Jedi Code, to control that power because, like water and air, when applied in a negative manner it can have dire consequences. So, yes, I believe that Yoda is trying to help Luke right away with an important view on the nature of the Force.

P.S. If this isn't clear, let me know. I'm kinda sleepy right now...

 

One of the things that mess's my head up the most is when Yoda talks about visions and seeing "old friends long gone". That made me think about how old Yoda was, and with the realisation through Episode II that Yoda (at least at that time) teaches all young recruits to the Jedi. He knew them all.
So imagine all the Jedi he has seen grow up from a baby and then seen die of old age, peacefully, not in a time of war, and yet he would be helpless to stop it. It must have been lonely.

 

Well Yoda obviously thinks Anakin is strong 'cause he was able to overcome death. He himself couldn't so that is why he says "not that strong". Easy.

 

Thanks for the replies everyone. I guess I should have gotten right to the point in my first post. the point I was getting at is that I think Yoda is suggesting that "power" is irrelevant to a Jedi. The only true power if the Force. Jedi don't manipultate the Force, they serve it's Will. They are the instruments of the Force, not vice versa.

So, I think in that regard, Yoda sees Anakin/Vader as somewhat of a living contradiction. He is powerful, but that "power" means nothing.

Well Yoda obviously thinks Anakin is strong 'cause he was able to overcome death. He himself couldn't so that is why he says "not that strong". Easy.- Jolt-Cola

Jolt, I think I disagree with that. Anakin wasn't able to overcome death. I think that's what Yoda's lesson is when he accepts death telling Luke that it's the way of the Force (in RoTJ). No one is that strong or that powerful. Only the Force can give life, and as it turns out, immortality. Vader's attempt at physcial immortality is a pipe dream.

 

I believe there is a good/bad to everything. Just look at the very things we need to survive. We need air to breathe, but if we have too much of it (hurricane, falling out of a plane) we can die. We need water to drink, but if we have too much of that (drowning) we can die. The Force can be applied in the same way. It can be applied to help and defend others who cannot do it themselves, to help the survival of the Republic in the movies. However, it can also be applied to meet one's own needs or desires, in a drastic and even deadly way if neccessary. -origjedi

Orig, I agree with this concept. but, in this regard I see the Jedi as instruments of the Force. They exercise skill and strength, but not as manipulators of the Force but as it's servants.

Vader's "spiritual weakness", as you put it, was indeed that and led to him mis-applying the Force to his own means and ends. Now, Ani was more powerful than any Jedi during the time of the Republic. But that power was used by Vader to destroy instead of defend. That is probably why they have a Jedi Code, to control that power because, like water and air, when applied in a negative manner it can have dire consequences. So, yes, I believe that Yoda is trying to help Luke right away with an important view on the nature of the Force. -origjedi

But, is Anakin really more powerful than any other Jedi? So far, he hasn't reall demonstrated an inordinate amount of skill with the Force. He was captured along with Padme and badly beaten by Dooku. i would argue that he wasn't really "powerful" until he started flirting with the Dark Side (first indication of this is when he slaughters the Tusken Raiders).

I guess what it all boils down to is that I see desire for "power" or being "powerful" as contrary to the true nature of the Force. Anakin wanted to be a "powerful" Jedi. That was what led him to the Dark Side. But, does Yoda truly believe that he was a "powerful Jedi." I don't think so. Especially if taken in context of what he says moments earlier about war. What is it that demonstrates Anaki's power in the PT. The assumption is that it will be his actions in the Clone War. But, as Yoda says "wars [do] not make one great."

 

JediSF,

I'd like to apologize. When Yoda says "powerful Jedi was he" about Anakin, I'm assuming he's referring to how powerful Ani becomes in Ep.III, which, of course, hasn't come out yet. So my references to Ani being "powerful" were based on my assumption that he will become powerful at some point. It seems you're referring to up to now how "powerful" he is, or isn't. Sorry about that. I do agree though that power IS NOT an attribute a true Jedi should seek out just for the sake of BEING powerful. However, I don't think it is contrary to the Force. The Force is a broad title for the power the Jedi can wield. Think about this. Yoda says, "For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." "Powerful", used in a context as to mean "to defend", is part of the Force. Maybe "powerful", when Yoda refers to Luke's father, means "to overcome others" or "to destroy". And in that case the "Wars do no make one great" has a grander meaning. As I said in my previous post, certain things can be used for good or evil. And it seems that the power the Force brings can be used in that way as well. So, maybe in one sense Yoda tells Luke about being powerful in a negative connotation without Luke realizing it, and then later refers to the power of the Force in a positive connotation when describing what it is. I think "powerful" can be looked at either way, not neccessarily as contrary to the true nature of the Force. It is part of the Force. If a sith lord uses the Force to be powerful to destroy, then that is also part of how the Force is applied. That, I think, is the true nature of the Force. Just like life, we can choose to become "powerful" people and better ourselves and others around us, or we can choose to become "powerful" in a sense to harm others or degragade life. But that is part of life and part of the Force.

 

I believe Yoda was already instructing Luke the moment he came near Dagobah, without Luke being aware of it.

I also think there are different kinds of power. The power Vader spoke of is clearly the more physical power. The kind that gives you what you want. But I think when Yoda referred to Anakin as a powerful Jedi, he meant Anakin had the potential of becoming a powerful Jedi. He was already powerful and of strong will as a Jedi. But Anakin became a powerful Sith Lord, not a Jedi.

Well, that's my contribution anyway...

 

The Force is a broad title for the power the Jedi can wield. Think about this. Yoda says, "For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." "Powerful", used in a context as to mean "to defend", is part of the Force...
...So, maybe in one sense Yoda tells Luke about being powerful in a negative connotation without Luke realizing it, and then later refers to the power of the Force in a positive connotation when describing what it is...
...I think, is the true nature of the Force. Just like life, we can choose to become "powerful" people and better ourselves and others around us, or we can choose to become "powerful" in a sense to harm others or degragade life. But that is part of life and part of the Force. - origjedi

origjedi, we are kind of saying the same thing. I think Yoda's lesson is that it is the Force, not the person, that is powerful. As you pointed out above, Yoda says that his ally is the Force and it is a "powerful ally." The Force is powerful, not the person.

So, it would appear that the lesson is that those who are "powerful" are just putting up a false front. Mortals are just that: mortal. Ultimately, the the power of the physical world (where Anakin's "power" was demonstrated and judged) is irrelevant:

---

[b]YODA: [i]Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.[/i][/b] [/blockquote]

 

I feel that the Dark Side emphasizes physical power as the most important, wheras the Light Side focuses more on mental and spiritual power.

 

Doesn't this do nothing but echo the themes of the midichlorian article on TFN?

 

Don't know haven't read it.

 

I think that Yoda's admission and awareness of his own limitations is a great foil to Anakin's ambition to become the most powerful of all Jedi in Episode II. It really shows the difference between what could be considered the two greatest Jedi: one light, one dark.

 

Gonk, I agree. it also shows that Anakin's quest for power if futile.