PT Yoda: "Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose."

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by texjrwillerjr, Feb 7, 2017.

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  1. texjrwillerjr Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2015
    master yoda said to anakin about his visions on Star Wars Episode 3, Revenge of the Sith, "Rejoice for those around us who transform into the Force. Mourn them, do not. Miss them, do not. Attachment leads to jealousy, the shadow of greed, that is" and Train yourself to let go of everything you fear to lose.

    my question is why master yoda do what he says. what I mean is; in episode 2 he could stop count dooku but he prefer save anakin and obi wan. and we also know, even he prefer the dark side, master yoda never give up about dooku, he always care him. so when yoda attached anyone is ok but only childhood fear is loosing someone he loved anakin cant attached anyone? any thought?
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  2. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    There's a difference; Yoda saved Anakin and Obi-wan because it was a compassionate act. Dooku was going to kill them to effect an escape and Yoda saved them. The act of a Jedi. What Anakin was doing was trying to hold on someone who was going to die of natural causes, as far as he knew. Every action Anakin took from the moment he had that vision was based on fear and greed. A very un-Jedi course of action. Yoda tells Anakin to let go of his fears and prepare for the inevitable. When Yoda save the two Jedi, he didn't do it out of fear. He didn't have an attachment to them.
  3. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    He does what he says. Yoda isn't attached to anyone. He saved Anakin and Obi-Wan because they were defenseless and were going to die had he not save them. It's the very reason why Dooku did what he did. Because he knew Yoda, as a Jedi, would help the defenseless over capturing himself.
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  4. texjrwillerjr Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2015
    so you can help anyone who is defensless but not your own mother!

    anakin's mother died of natural causes?

    you two please make some sense! your both explanations are ridiculous.
  5. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    He didn't help her by killing the Tusken Raiders after she died. He did that for himself because he was afraid to be alone without her and was fueled by his anger and hate. Where he was wrong was leaving Naboo to go Tatooine, which was a) disobeying orders and b) putting Padme in danger.


    You didn't talk about Shmi. You talked about Padme. With regards to Shmi, Anakin was wrong to go to Tatooine since he was disobeying orders and putting Padme in danger. He was told to stay on Naboo and to not do anything without talking to Obi-wan or the Council, first. His actions could have gotten Padme killed. As to rescuing Shmi, if he had gotten to her and gotten her out without a fight, he would have been right to do so. But he didn't and instead, he committed an act of revenge. Revenge is the path to the dark side.

    Padme was going to die in childbirth as far as Anakin knew. What he wanted was to learn how to use the Force to stop Padme from dying, which is wrong. The Force cannot stop others from dying. Yoda told Anakin to let go of his fears and accept that people will die in his life and when it comes to natural causes, if medicine cannot help, then he must accept nature.

    When it came to saving Obi-wan and Anakin, Yoda did not have an attachment to them. He did not use the Force to try and revive them. Instead, he saved their lives because it was acceptable to do so. He was guided by compassion, not fear.
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  6. oncafar Jedi Master

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    Jan 10, 2017
    star 4
    dragging in TCW, obi-wan goes to satine when she appeals to the jedi for help. they wouldn't help because mandalore was neutral in the war. so obi-wan went alone.
    Last edited by oncafar, Feb 7, 2017
  7. texjrwillerjr Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 13, 2015
    did the mighty jedi order do anything to save Shmi from slave? did the jedi order let anakin to save his mother? why? only the jedis worth to rescue? what is the real reason that jedi order did not anything about her?

    about padme's death. anakin knew she is going to die in childbirth but did he know this is because of natural way or after attacked by anyone? is it too difficulte to say anakin "dont wory sun we take care who ever you care. you just focus to end the war" is this really impossible to say?
  8. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
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    No, you can't help "anyone who is defenseless". You can help the defenseless if you can.

    Ridiculous is the effort one has to make to decipher your original post, but anyway...

    There's no mighty Jedi Order. There's just Jedi Order. And no, they didn't do anything for various reasons. Tatooine is a Hutt world. The Jedi can only act within the Republic. Why should they free Shmi and not anybody else? Because she Anakin's mother? The Jedi don't play favorites. Besides, she was freed anyway.

    No, they didn't. Nor should they. Anakin chose to be a Jedi, and he has responsibilities and duties to uphold. As a Jedi, his mother is not more important than anybody else. And how did you know Shmi was in need of saving?

    No. The Jedi don't work for themselves.

    Already explained above.

    No, he didn't know. He only believed his vision to be true.

    It is because it goes against the Jedi way. That's a selfish behaviour.
  9. SavedByChristAlone Jedi Youngling

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    Jan 26, 2017
    star 1
    {quote/Alexrd]There's no mighty Jedi Order. There's just Jedi Order. And no, they didn't do anything for various reasons. Tatooine is a Hutt world. The Jedi can only act within the Republic. Why should they free Shmi and not anybody else? Because she Anakin's mother? The Jedi don't play favorites. Besides, she was freed anyway.

    [quote/Alexrd] No, they didn't. Nor should they. Anakin chose to be a Jedi, and he has responsibilities and duties to uphold. As a Jedi, his mother is not more important than anybody else. And how did you know Shmi was in need of saving?

    [quote/Alexrd]No, he didn't know. He only believed his vision to be true.

    [quote/Alexrd]It is because it goes against the Jedi way. That's a selfish behaviour.[/quote]

    To all of that, I say:

    Well, maybe the Jedi Order should have gone and saved Shmi because she was a person who was enslaved. You know, someone with thoughts and feelings and needs in a situation where she could be killed or sold or endangered and exploited by her master, and she would have no redress, neither would anyone care. Maybe she was in need of saving because she wasn't in a position to get herself out of an exploitative and dangerous environment. Yes, she was freed eventually by Owen Lars, but that's not the point - the Jedi Order should have cared about slavery and injustice on Tatooine once they knew it existed. Yes, even if it wasn't in the Republic, because if I remember rightly, Yoda says that the Force binds the Galaxy and the Universe together, not just Republic Space. The Jedi should have at least made an effort to help the people in the far reaches of the galaxy wherever they could. And Anakin believed his visions about Padme to be true because, if you'll remember, last time this happened he tried to be a good lil Jedi and ignore it. If he had gone to Tatooine immediately he could have saved Shmi from death and a lot of suffering. And whilst I do think that Anakin was very selfish in the endgame, it was the failure of the Jedi to at least try to understand him, sympathise with him, and meet him halfway that made him feel 'Palpatine will help me. Palpatine will care for me. Palpatine offers me hope for what's breaking my heart . . . and the Jedi never did that for me.'
    Last edited by SavedByChristAlone, Feb 8, 2017
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  10. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    So were many other people. Why is Shmi more important than everyone else? Besides, they can't. Tatooine is not within the Republic. That would be putting the Republic directly against the Hutts.

    Or not. Anyway, that's irrelevant. Jedi are not vigilantes, they don't play favorites nor do they act on fear.

    And when does that stop? Anything can happen to her anywhere at anytime. You don't control that. If your argument is that Anakin will always fear for her, then all he needs to do is cease to be a Jedi and go live with her.

    Tatooine is not part of the Republic and the Jedi serve the Republic. Tatooine is an Hutt world. Hutt space and respective rules are not a secret. Yes, slavery shouldn't exist. But then again, Hutts are not known for being civilized and democratic.

    What does that got to do with anything?

    Why the Jedi? Why not everyone else? The number of existing Jedi is limited. They only have jurisdiction within the Republic and even within it, to see a Jedi is very rare. Even if they could act on Tatooine, they already have their hands full as it is.

    But he didn't. And he should have ignored them again. Still, my point is that it was a belief, not a certainty.

    You don't know that. Besides, Anakin acted on his fear and in doing so became a slave to it. That's not the Jedi way.

    Wrong. The Jedi didn't fail to understand him. They were there for him and advised him accordingly. He was the one who failed the Jedi. He lied to them and failed to follow the Jedi way (on purpose).

    Me, me, me... Yes, the dark side is the way to go for that line of thinking. The Jedi way is not about pandering your personal wishes.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 8, 2017
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  11. SavedByChristAlone Jedi Youngling

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    Jan 26, 2017
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    Shmi was no more or no less important that any other slave on Tatooine. Since they were aware of the problem, the Jedi should have tried to free as many slaves as they reasonably could. Whether or not Tatooine was in the Republic or not, because even as late as ROTS, the Jedi were trying to stay in charge of their own affairs, which implies that in TPM times the Jedi had some autonomy from the Senate and the Republic. If the Force is universal, then it follows that the Jedi should be universal, not just tied to one political body or nation. Or do people matter less because they happen to live outside the Republic's boundaries?
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  12. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Jul 7, 2009
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    Then why did you brought her up in particular?

    Why? They are aware of many problems but there are limits and consequences to their actions (and jurisdiction). Besides, how exactly would they do what you're proposing?

    They were criticizing the Chancellor for interfering in Jedi affairs. And they do have autonomy over their order. But their service is still directed to the senate and the people it represents. They are the ones who legitimize them.

    How? The Jedi are not the Force.

    Like I said, it's that body that gives them legitimacy to act.

    To whom?
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 8, 2017
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  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    By that rationale, do you support a government interfering in the affairs of another government that they have no jurisdiction in? Donald Trump says that Mexico will pay for the boarder wall. Then told Peña Nieto that he better get things under control, or he'll send troops to Mexico. Do you think Trump is right? That's essentially what you think the Jedi should do with Tatooine.


    The Jedi work with the Republic and form a symbiont circle. The Jedi Order didn't have a mandate to interfere in government affairs unless given leave to do so by the Senate or the Chancellor. Neither of which have given the Jedi the authority to go to the Outer Rim and interfere in the affairs of the Hutts. The Jedi were not supposed to interfere with the Naboo blockade without consent of the Senate, which is why the Chancellor dispatched them in secret to settle the dispute. But they couldn't testify. The Sith came from the Jedi who thought that they could do whatever they wanted with the Republic and other local governments, without concern for the people's wishes.

    Shmi was freed by Cliegg Lars. She was fine. Then she wasn't. As to the Council, they didn't know that she was in danger on Tatooine when the Tuskens took her. Mainly because Anakin didn't know until he reached Tatooine and he didn't tell the Council until much later what happened. Before then, the Council didn't do anything because their mandate wasn't to free slaves outside of the Republic.That's the only reason.

    Anakin didn't really know that she was going to die. He just assumes that is the only outcome of his vision. He forgets the golden rule of Force visions, the future is always in motion. If he did nothing, she wouldn't die. And even if she did die, then it was her time to die. People die eventually. They cannot stop her from dying because the Force cannot be used to stop her death. Remember, she dies because of Anakin's efforts to save her. That's what he is seeing. Her death is his fault for trying to save her. Not from anything else. Yoda and Obi-wan are told that Padme is dying for reasons that the medical droids cannot fathom, as she is medically healthy. She is suffering no trauma. They do not use the Force to stop her death, because the Force cannot be used that way. Yoda tells Luke that he is going to die and that he is not strong enough to stop himself from dying. His death is the will of the Force, because that is nature. And Anakin doesn't tell them that it is Padme who is dying.

    What Yoda told Anakin was the right thing, which is let go of your fears and accept the Force. Remember, Luke was so certain that Han and Leia were going to die, but they didn't die. Han wouldn't die for another thirty years. But Luke reacted out of fear and nearly got himself killed trying to save them. Hell, Leia even tells Luke to leave. That he's walking into a trap if he stays. They're willing to sacrifice themselves for him. If he honored them and their willingness to sacrifice themselves, then he would stay.
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  14. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 4
    To drop my two cents: to go to Tatooine to free Shmi would be to anger the Hutts and risk a war with them. Hate to say it, but Shmi was not worth the Republic fighting a needless war with the Hutts. If anything else, maybe PADME should've done something about it. I mean, Anakin literally shot the final blow that spelled the end of the Trade Federation occupation of Naboo. The least she could've done was free Shmi and find her a place to live on Naboo as a 'thank you' to Anakin. She wouldn't even have to be obvious about it -- send an agent in disguised as a slaver to purchase Shmi and get her to Naboo.

    As far as Anakin not telling Yoda exactly WHO was dying, does it really matter? Be it Padme, Obi-Wan, or Anakin himself, Yoda's advice would've still been the same: "Death is a natural part of life."
    Last edited by DARTHLINK, Feb 9, 2017
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  15. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

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    May 27, 1999
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    In a way, the Jedi were falling victim to their own fears as much as Anakin was. They were afraid of having to face the Sith again, so they immediately deny any possibility of their return, even when a trusted, powerful Jedi (Qui-Gon) suggests it's possible. They're afraid of losing their image of power and omniscience, so they decide to hide their diminished abilities from the Senate, their bosses. They're afraid of even the merest possibility of falling to the Dark Side, so they preach against any form of personal attachment and enforce it, even if it means letting people die who might've been saved. They're afraid of the Republic being under attack, so they abandon their status as peacekeepers and become full-time soldiers, even when the Republic already has a military. And they're afraid of the Republic falling, so they plan to overthrow the government and take over, even though the war is far from over and Palpatine is still in charge, in the eyes of the Senate.

    I'm not saying they're fully responsible for their fate, but Palpatine perfectly manipulated their fears to make them easy targets when it was time for him to wipe them out.
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  16. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    It was arrogance on their part in thinking that the Sith weren't back, not fear. They believe that they would know if they were back, but Yoda points out that it might have indeed happen without their knowing it. But just because Qui-gon faced a Force sensitive warrior with some skills, doesn't automatically make him a Sith. For all they know, it was a Nightbrother or a wannabe.

    That's wrong. People can be saved, but how a Jedi goes about saving that person and what they feel is very important. Ahsoka thought that she had to stay by Anakin's side when he was injured, but later realizes that she was wrong for thinking about that. That if she didn't listen to Aayla Secura, she wouldn't have found the help necessary to save him. Luminara tells Anakin that they will try to rescue Ahsoka and Barris, but they must also accept that they might not be able to do so in time. Ezra is right to want to rescue Kanan from the Imperials, but he has to do it the right way and not the wrong way. Likewise, he and Kanan have to let Morad be killed by Thrawn because exposing themselves trying to help him, will probably get them captured/killed, but also prevent them from carrying out their objective. Morad have died for nothing if they failed to find out what the Empire was building. When Luke goes to Cloud City, he's doing the wrong thing because he is acting out of fear. When he goes to rescue Han from Jabba, he does the right thing because he remains calm and focused. He doesn't charge headlong into Jabba's palace and instead comes up with a plan, while preparing himself to carry out this plan.

    Jedi can save people. They just have to do it the right way.
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  17. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    No. They weren't afraid. One Jedi claimed it to be impossible while another was uncertain. That's far from the same as "Jedi immediately deny the return of the Sith".

    They decide to hide that information because there are those who would take advantage of it and hurt the Republic in the process, specially in a time of crisis as seen in AOTC.

    Like whom? They preach against personal attachments because attachments is a path to the dark side, as the movies themselves show and as they probably know from history and experience.
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  18. oncafar Jedi Master

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    Jan 10, 2017
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    i personally think ahsoka is right to follow her passions/emotions. it's her nature. because she is ruled by compassion >>>>> anything darker, her nature serves her well.

    from what i've seen of tcw, she can be vengeful. and that is true in her confrontation with vader in 'rebels.' it's a risk that comes with passion/emotion, but she seems to keep it in check.

    in tcw when she was on trial for the temple bombing she said she would never harm an innocent. and that's at the basis of her values. she defends the weak and innocent, and has compassion for what she finds that is vulnerable. so when anakin called out to her in the 'rebels' episode, she heard him. as long as her ability to hear the appeals of others isn't clouded by desires for vengeance, she is okay.
    Last edited by oncafar, Feb 10, 2017
  19. Kenneth Morgan Chosen One

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    You may have a point re: the Council rejecting the reappearance of the Sith. But it certainly shows some arrogance on their part.

    As for not telling the Senate of their limited abilities, your view doesn't refute the idea that they were afraid of what might happen. Rather than face the situation, report the situation to their bosses and let the chips fall where they may, they hid the truth. It'd be no different than the Secretary of Defense learning that our nuclear weapons aren't working and deciding not to tell the President for fear of the reaction.

    And, as I've noted many times, the situation with Shmi and Padme in the PT, and Leia and Chewie in the OT, show that they are, indeed, fearful of attachment to the point that they'll even allow someone to die in order to avoid a dreaded attachment, even by proxy. And there fear is such that they immediately assume all attachments are harmful, rather than considering individual cases. And, in the OT, Luke proved them wrong, in his case.
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  20. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

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    Ki-Adi shows arrogance. And Yoda notes in AOTC that arrogance is a flaw common among some Jedi. But more importantly, they didn't let the arrogance of some dictate their actions. In the Maul example, they still decided to investigate, despite the disbelief of some:

    "We will use all our resources to unravel this mystery. We will discover the identity of your attacker." - Mace Windu

    Not the president, but the senate or the world. And honestly, that would be a wise decision.

    No. They are wary of attachment and for good reason. They don't allow someone to die because of it. Who exactly did they let die? Anakin acted on visions of possible futures. Out of fear of loss. And in doing so, he not only didn't prevent what he saw but was reckless and commited crimes to try to prevent them.

    What? Luke proved them right, twice. First in TESB where he saw his friends dying and rushed to save them, only to put himself at risk and having his friends rescue him instead. And again in ROTJ where Vader threatened to turn Leia which made him almost kill a disarmed Vader out of hate. Fortunately he realized what he was doing before it was too late.

    Luke succeeded through compassion, not attachment. Compassion is a core part of the Jedi way, as Anakin rightfully pointed out in AOTC.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Feb 11, 2017
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  21. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 18, 2013
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    Not as such.

    Attachments can be harmful as seen over and over again IF the Jedi in this case take thing too far.

    Obviously Jedi are attached to things but are not supposed to be so much that they can't let go.

    Mace is attached to the Jedi Order and Republic as such.

    He does make a choice to kill Palpatine that is arguably very good or very bad.

    It was not the Jedi way. Anakin was right just as his killing of Dooku was not the Jedi way.

    Mace was in the Jedi way wrong to do so and it did not work out for him at all.

    Luke succeeded by letting go which Anakin didn't in the case of Padme.

    The problem is that being too attached can lead to what happened to Anakin.
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

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    Actually, she was being selfish in wanting to stay with Anakin which is what Aayla pointed out. She wanted to stay beside him, but not make an actual effort to help him. She was acting out of fear of loss, rather than compassion which is letting go of her fears and going to find help, not just for him, but for all of them.

    AAYLA: "I can still sense your worry for Anakin, your attachment to him."

    AHSOKA: "It's just I get so confused sometimes. It's forbidden for Jedi to form attachments, yet we are supposed to be compassionate."

    AAYLA: "It is nothing to be ashamed of, Ahsoka. I went through the same process when I was your age with my own Master."

    AHSOKA: "Really? You?"

    AAYLA: "He was like a father to me. I realized that for the greater good, I had to let him go. Don't lose a thousand lives just to save one."


    AHSOKA: "You were right all along, Master Secura."

    AAYLA: "About what?"

    AHSOKA: "If I had stayed with Anakin, we probably wouldn't have found this village in time to save him."

    She wants to help Anakin, which is right, but she was led by her emotions until she was convinced to look at it more logically.

    They don't inform the Senate because their adversaries in the Senate will use this to strip the Jedi of their authority, thus making them ineffective during the coming storm. Their ability to protect the Republic will be lost and faith in their ability to do their job will be shaken.
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  23. VadersLaMent Chosen One

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    Apr 3, 2002
    star 10
    I'll drop my couple pennies worth.

    If someone close to you dies or some thing you are attached to is removed, let it go and move on. In the real world people can slip into depression when they lose someone. That is what one is trying to avoid, to let it go and move on. You try to save them, defend them, stop the forces of evil and such. But should you fail you let it go and move on.
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  24. oncafar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2017
    star 4
    i didn't see that episode. but i don't think these things are mutually exclusive either. teen ahsoka naturally makes more mistakes probably and is more impulsive. ahsoka in star wars rebels says herself to vader that she's not a jedi. but she's not turning to the dark side either despite not following the jedi way. her approach is "wrong" in the context of the jedi way, but i don't think that it is "wrong" in general. if she is guided enough by the light side of the force (love, compassion), she stays on the light side.

    ps. this is my impression so far as i haven't seen her much in sw rebels outside of that um one episode.
    Last edited by oncafar, Feb 12, 2017
  25. DARTHLINK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 24, 2005
    star 4
    I think @Alexrd once put it this way: "The Jedi can save people, they just have to do it the right way."

    In other words, if I were critically injured or buried under a pile of rubble, I'd rather my companion be smart and leave to get help and use critical thinking than to act with emotions and stay with me.
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