Yoda vs Mace: Who is ultimately more powerful?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jinnobi, May 19, 2005.

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  1. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    And if Anakin had reached his full potential, it stands to reason that he would have been a level 10 swordsman, not a level 9, as Gillard has also stated he was.

    I believe that when Gillard says the most powerful Jedi ever, he meant just the potentially most powerful Jedi ever. The Emperor says "Vader will become more powerful than either of us", implying that he isn't there yet.
  2. Freedan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 2005
    star 1
    Freedan: now you are contradicting yourself. According to GL himself, Mace won fair and square in the fight against Sideous... That would imply that he would also beat Anakin

    Do you have any proof GL did say this? As far as I don't see your proof, I can assume that's coming out of your @$$. Mace could not have won fair and square against Mace. Palpatine's objective was to gain Anakin's sympathy and make turn on the Jedi, and seeing Palps with a purple saber pointed at his throat would do just that. He lost on purpose. He wanted Anakin to believe the Jedi were lying to him and that they were trying to overthrow the Republic and betray his old friend and mentor. By letting Mace win, Anakin would think Palps was saying the truth, and defended his friend. If Sidious won, everything Palps said to Anakin when he revealed himself to be a Sith Lord - everything about the Jedi trying to take over the Republic and betraying Palpatine - would be proven false. Palps told Anakin that the Jedi would kill him when they discover who he really is, and if Palps won, then Anakin would see right through his lie and defend Mace. Palps threw the fight to gain Anakin's trust. Remember that the Sith's was are deciet and treachery. If Mace really did beat Sid, that would make Sid an honest man, something which he obviously isn't.

    Now let me say this again. Anakin lost because he wasn't emotionally stable with Padmè having turned against him from his point of view. He was angry at OB1 for having led Padmè to betray him and he lost because he lost his focus. Otherwise, Anakin is the most powerful Jedi there. That is fact. Please don't give me any BS about Anakin having the most potential. He already ACHIEVED that full potential. Accoriding to Gillard, his skills surpass everybody else's in the movie, and seeing as how he's the stuntman and swordmaster who choreographs every fight scene, he knows what he's talking about and I trust him to be right. Put him in a fight against anyone else, INCLUDING Mace and Yoda and he would win. He wasn't so angry at them as he was with OB1. Anakin would only consider them traitors to the Republic because they had tried to kill Palps and overthrow him, like all the other Jedi he killed in the Temple. It was nothing very personal. With OB1, that's a different story. It WAS personal, and that's why he lost focus.

    Summing it up, we have Anakin on the top of the list, and Sidious is definitely above both Yoda and Mace, so he's right after Anakin. What Sidious meant when he said Anakin would be more powerful was that he would have a more extensive knowledge and wisdom of the Force, but his saber skills were already unrivalled. Now, Mace is not as good as Yoda. If you look in the Databank in SW.com and check out Mace Windu, you'll see there that it says only two people have ever bested Mace in combat: Yoda and Dooku. Now I believe that by ROTS, Mace had surpassed Dooku, but Yoda was far better than Dooku and this was seen in AOTC. If Dooku hadn't escaped, he would have surely been defeated. Yoda was far better than Dooku, but I don't believe Mace was as good as Dooku. Recalling on the conversation they had on the balcony when Mace put the saber on Jango's throat, you could tell Dooku was in no way afraid of Mace, implying he was better than Mace and he knew it. So in ROTS, Yoda is definitely better than Mace. By ROTS, Mace did improve, but Yoda also did because he had to fight quite a few times himself. Mace surpassed Dooku, but Yoda was already better than Dooku to begin with, much better, so here, you have your answer. Yoda is better than Mace.

    List:

    Anakin
    Sidious
    Yoda
    Mace
    Dooku
  3. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    He says Mace overpowers Sidious. Overpower = Overcome with superior force.

    Why would he want to beat himself. But I am fairly sure Mace has the power to kill himself, if that is what you mean.

    Being emotionally unstable will not cause you to lose a duel where you have any amount of superiority. According to Lucas, Obi-Wan can't even compete with Sidious, meaning he'd go down almost immediately (although some Obi-Wan fans deny this). If Anakin truly were already even greater than Sidious, Obi-Wan would not have lasted long enough against him for him to make that mistake that allowed Obi-Wan to win.

    Then why isn't he a level 10 swordsman, according to Gillard who you so love to quote?

    His skills may surpass everybody else's, but his emotional control doesn't.

    He was very conflicted when he betrayed Mace.

    Maybe for skills alone, but certainly not for skills and emotional control as a package.

    Wrong. He is slightly above Yoda and quite a bit below Mace.

    Proof?

    No, he is better. At subduing Sidious, at any rate.

    EU garbage will not trump what happens on screen.

    More like, he was slightly better than Dooku. He didn't defeat Dooku easily, and Dooku had already been fighting, meaning he should be more tired than Yoda to begin with.

    He knows that Mace would have to murder Jango in cold blood in order to not have to face them both at the same to, something he knows that Mace as a Jed
  4. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    No, because the exact qoute is "Sence Anakin has been ESTABLISHED as the most powerful jedi ever.
  5. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
    Do you have any proof GL did say this? As far as I don't see your proof, I can assume that's coming out of your @$$.


    :oops: :oops: :oops:
    You havent heard the DVD commentary or what??
  6. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    star 1
    Watch AotC again. You obviously missed the point where Dooku also said he was more powerful than Yoda.

    That whole paragraph is completely devoid of logic.

  7. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    sums everything up.i agree
  8. r8hitman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2004
    star 4
  9. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
  10. SuperSith44 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    basically just look at the facts Who lives longer? who survives their encounter with the sith lord when he was at full power and not faking who was the only jedi to survive when order 66 is applied?? A)YODA!!!!!!!o_O come on think about it!
  11. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    star 1
    Yoda has a longer lifespan due to his species.

    Yoda survives his encounter with Sidious by running away.

    Mace survived everything Sidious threw at him until Anakin betrayed him. Sidious was not faking until after the first bout of lightning. Lucas says so in the RotS DVD commentary. It's been out for 3 days now. Check it out.

    Yoda was the only Jedi to survive when Order 66 was applied? Come on think about it - Remember a certain Jedi by the name of Obi-Wan Kenobi? :oops:

  12. MacetheCouncillor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 4, 2003
    star 3
    Now that I think about it, Freedan's argument that Dooku is a superior fighter to Mace because he didn't show fear on the balcony is even more fallacious than I prevously thought. The reason is...Mace didn't so show fear either. So while that logic might dictate that Dooku is the superior fighter to Mace, the exact same logic dictates that Mace is also a superior fighter to Dooku. Clearly, displayed fear in the balcony scene offers no definitive guidance on who is a stronger fighter of Mace and Dooku.
  13. SuperSith44 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2005
    star 1
    oops now im embarrassed [face_blush] how on earth could i forget obi wan oh well i still think yoda would walk all over mace!
  14. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    star 1
    I'll let you off as it was your first post! [face_peace]

    Welcome to the Boards! [:D]

  15. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    Anakin would have beaten Mace just like he did to Dooku, he lost to Kenobi for various reasons, you all keep quoting the commentary well its explained why he loses to Kenobi, i do not think Anakin would have been so conflicted about killing Mace or anybody, jedi or sith, the way he was to Obi-Wan.
  16. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    use the dooku duel to prove that anakin couldbeat mace is a bad argument

    GL said that mace is up there with the top guys while dooku was not.
  17. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    No he didn't your wrong, Dooku is about as high as anybody, i guess you missed Yoda not touching and what he did to Kenobi 2wice, don't tell me you think Kenobi is weak too. Mace could not have beaten Anakin and Kenobi together.
  18. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    " you have to be either mace or yoda to compete with the emperor"

    GL.

    "instead of having this super guy he wanted he is stucked with another dooku or maul"
    (this quote is not accurate at all but the essence is here)

    GL.

    according to GL dooku is 20% weaker than the emperor,that make him weaker than both yoda and mace,we also know that he is weaker that anakin.

    you are the one who is wrong,dooku is not one of the top guys at all according to GL.
  19. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    star 1
    It explains how Obi-Wan was able to beat someone much more powerful than him. Mace was on a higher level than Obi-Wan.

    Mace was a far greater warrior than Dooku by the time of RotS and would not take fighting Anakin lightly as he knows how powerful he is. Dooku thought we was good enough to toy with Anakin and was not trying to kill him.

    Mace would simply out-think Anakin and beat him strategically rather than trying to use brute force. (Similar to how he took out Kar Vastor.)

  20. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    I disagree, Vastor i missed that fight, I guess you all just think Kenobi is a punk. And that GL quote was concerning jedi, and it then said Anakin was the only one who could beat him, and he would have if he did not get hurt so bad. And you both did see Dooku fight Kenobi and Yoda, and you think Mace is even better than that.[face_shame_on_you] And Dooku and Maul were not even close to the same, Dooku beat Kenobi like he was a clonetrooper in ROTS, and padawan Kenobi beat Maul.
  21. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    first of all if what i tell you comes from GL's mouth then the debate about that topic is pretty much over

    second where did you get that obi wan was this enormously powerful character ?? if he was owned by dooku who was weaker than mace and yoda then that means that obi wan still has much to learn,not that dooku is ultra powerful.

    please tell me that your next move is not gonna be to argue that obi wan could defeat palpatine ?? [face_praying]
  22. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2005
    star 1

    Not at all. Kenobi was the best of the Jedi apart from Mace, Yoda and Anakin. He just had a mental weakness against Dooku, probably because Dooku taught the person who taught him.

    Lucas said that you had to be Mace or Yoda to compete with Sidious, and that Mace overpowered Sidious.

  23. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    i agree the debate is over, Lucas said Anakin could beat Sidious and Mace could hang.
  24. sithrules70 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    post ROTS anakin could beat sidious.

    what you are saying is that dooku is stronger thanmace and thats ludicrous.
  25. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 4
    ludicrous? no, I think Dooku would beat Mace, and Yoda,and Anakin, that guy said Vastor, thats EU i guess, well the databank on Starwars.com said Dooku and Mace dueled and Dooku won. Lucicrous, Mace is not so high and mighty and Dooku and Kenobi are so far beneath him. Kenobi i think would beat Mace too, now that i think about, he wasn't as powerful as Maul or Anakin and beat them. Look the bottom line is Mace had 1 fight and who knows what would have happened if there was no Anakin, DS beat Yoda with lighting, not the blade, and by Lucas he did get overpowerd with the sword but faked being weak, DS could have knocked that purple thing right out of his hand. You can't use EU if you do Dooku is better, and in the movies the 1 fight who knows if he really won, he didn't, hes overrated. We can rank Anakin and Dooku and Yoda b/c they fought so much.
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