Yoda vs Mace: Who is ultimately more powerful?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Jinnobi, May 19, 2005.

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  1. sithrules70 Jedi Master

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    May 28, 2005
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    I think Dooku would beat Mace

    debatable


    and Yoda

    dooku lost to yoda in AOTC and ran like a girl


    and Anakin

    must i remind you who crushed dooku in like 15 seconds.??


    Look the bottom line is Mace had 1 fight and who knows what would have happened if there was no Anakin

    mace would have killed or arrested sidious.

  2. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

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    Apr 22, 2005
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    GL's qoute was, "In the SUIT Vader is about 80% of palpatine.
  3. sithrules70 Jedi Master

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    May 28, 2005
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    whats the point of that ?? i was just stating that dooku = suited vader.

    dooku is not yoda,mace or palpatine.
  4. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

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    Jun 16, 2005
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    Yes it is over - Lucas said Anakin at full potential could beat Sidious. He was far from that in RotS.

    He tried and failed. Lucas has said that Sidious was trying to kill Mace with the first bout of lightning.

    Hate Mace all you want, but Lucas has established him as being on the same level as Sidious and Yoda, and he legitimately beat Sidious.

  5. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

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    Sep 13, 2003
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    full potential he did not use that word, "Anakin could have done it."
  6. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

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    Jun 16, 2005
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    Sidious said to Yoda:

    "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us."

  7. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

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    May 12, 2005
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    Yes it is over - Lucas said Anakin at full potential could beat Sidious. He was far from that in RotS.

    Lucas said Anakin's potential was TWICE the power of Sidious. That means he only had to be halfway there to beat him.
  8. ZamWesell44 Force Ghost

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    Anakin could beat anybody, in ROTS, except Kenobi.

  9. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

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    Jun 16, 2005
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    And yet Sidious, the person who knows Anakin the best (even more than Padme and Obi-Wan because he could tell Sidious anything), states that Anakin is not as powerful as himself or Yoda.

  10. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

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    And yet Sidious, the person who knows Anakin the best (even more than Padme and Obi-Wan because he could tell Sidious anything), states that Anakin is not as powerful as himself or Yoda.

    Sidious is not always right. Anakin seems to think he's more powerful than Sidious and he knows Sidious' power, having seen it firsthand.

    Mace Windu himself called Anakin the most powerful Jedi in the ROTS novel. I'm not sure if Anakin is as strong as Sidious, but if he's not he's very close.
  11. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

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    Anakin has always been arrogant (e.g. he thought he was the equal of Yoda in saber combat in AotC).

    Mace said Anakin was arguably the most powerful and the context in which he said this was that Anakin was unstable and that, coupled with his power, was dangerous. It's a key trait of the Jedi to be humble.

  12. Freedan Jedi Knight

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    Oct 30, 2005
    star 1
    I guess I'll have to see the DVD commentaries when I get back home. Believe it or not, I haven't bought the DVD yet, so shoot me for it. Even if I did, I wouldn't be able to watch for another month.
  13. mandragora Force Ghost

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    May 28, 2005
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    That's the quote from the commentary (just picked it from Shaitan's Thread on ROTS board):
    GL: "Ok, well this sequence always started out with Mace uh overpowering Palpatine and then Palpatine using his powers to try to destroy Mace and Mace deflecting his rays with his lightsaber. It always was that Anakin cut the lightsaber out of his hand. But this part where he pretends to lose his power and be weak was something that I added later cos? this is it moved the point where Anakin turns down to this moment right here and you can see that he?s now that its very clear that he?s, he wants him to go on trial so he can pump him for information about how to get these powers."
  14. Chosen_One1 Jedi Master

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    May 12, 2005
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    Anakin has always been arrogant (e.g. he thought he was the equal of Yoda in saber combat in AotC).

    Mace said Anakin was arguably the most powerful and the context in which he said this was that Anakin was unstable and that, coupled with his power, was dangerous. It's a key trait of the Jedi to be humble.


    Yea Anakin is at times arrogant, but Sidious is the same way. "The Chancellor is very powerful, you'll need my help if your going to arrest him." Anakin knew how powerful Palpatine was.

    That is just one quote labeling Anakin as the most powerful Jedi. I have another one in my sig. Regarding Anakin as the most powerful Jedi means he has to be atleast close to Palps in power.
  15. Mace_Windolene Jedi Knight

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    Jun 16, 2005
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    I agree that Anakin was very powerful. And close to Sidious. In the time of RotS, Mace, Yoda and Sidious were the most powerful and slightly higher than Anakin due to their wisdom and experience. After the big three and Anakin, I think there was a pretty big gap in power levels between them and the next most powerful (who would probably be Dooku).

  16. sithrules70 Jedi Master

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    May 28, 2005
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    "The Chancellor is very powerful, you'll need my help if your going to arrest him." Anakin knew how powerful Palpatine was.

    thats just an excuse anakin makes to be there in the arrest.
  17. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    Nic gillard said,"Anakin has been established as te most powerful jedi ever."-Nic gillard

    According to GL, Mace overpowerd palpatine.So if you take that into account, you get the fact that it id not take the most powerful jedi ever(which Anakin is) to over power palpatine.

    Ian Mcdiarmid-"The Emperor wanted the greatest warrior in the galaxy to protect the empire,and that is what Anakin is."

    "Anakin is a level nine in saber fighting ability"-Nic gillard

    "Anakin is arguably the most powerful jedi ever and he is still getting stronger."-Mace Windu

    "Anakin is supposed to be the best."-Hayden Christensen.

    "Anakin is a battalions worth of firepower in hiw own right."

    Plus the qoute in Chosen_one1's sig.
  18. sithrules70 Jedi Master

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    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    Now let me say this again. Anakin lost because he wasn't emotionally stable with Padmè having turned against him from his point of view. He was angry at OB1 for having led Padmè to betray him and he lost because he lost his focus


    i agree.



    . Otherwise, Anakin is the most powerful Jedi there. That is fact.



    agree again





    Please don't give me any BS about Anakin having the most potential. He already ACHIEVED that full potential.

    .you are basicly saying that anakin in ROTS was already twice as strong as palpatine ?? [face_talk_hand]


    Accoriding to Gillard, his skills surpass everybody else's in the movie, and seeing as how he's the stuntman and swordmaster who choreographs every fight scene, he knows what he's talking about and I trust him to be right


    i rather believe GL.




    . Put him in a fight against anyone else, INCLUDING Mace and Yoda and he would win.



    [face_thinking] you have anything that even resembles proof for that statement ??
  19. Freedan Jedi Knight

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    Oct 30, 2005
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    Plus the qoute in Chosen_one1's sig.

    It says in his generation, but Mace is one generation older than Anakin, and Sidious &Dooku are several generations ahead while Yoda is hundreds ahead. It doesn't neccessarily mean Anakin is THE most powerful Jedi. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that he could not be THE most powerful, but that quote alone doesn't mean Anakin is THE one. Besides, Anakin was already more powerful than all the Jedi his age. Other than that, I'm gonna have to wait until I get the DVD and listen to all the commentaries.
  20. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    I think that I'm actually coming around to the fact that after watching ROTS Windu is more or less equally powerful as Yoda. Especially his abilities to fight Sideous was impressive. Perhaps it has something to do with his techniques, which some of you argue is more aggressive and almost connected to the dark side.

    On the other hand, I doubt if any character in the saga has Yoda's knowledge and both appreciation and control of the force. I think his life appreciating view of the force is what makes him so powerful. Perhaps he was not as good fighing Sideous as Windu, but he did have a more difficult task. Windu was amazing in his fight though - haven't bought the film yet, shame on me[face_shame_on_you]

    But, since you are discussing Anakin... I don't think that Anakin can be measured to Mace and Yoda or Sideous. Sideous is Yoda's nemesis - therefore I don't think that either of them is more powerful. Mace, that is a bit more obscure since he do not have such a nemesis - perhaps Dooku? Mace did show himself as an excellent swordsman however, and he is very wise.
    Anakin is powerful, no doubt. But his ignorance of the force is his flaw. He is both ignorant and arrogant, and that is not a good combination. As someone mentioned, in AOTC he believes he is as powerful as Yoda - clearly he is not at that time. In ROTS he think beating OBW will be easy as cake - clearly it was not. He overestimates himself and underestimates his opponents - not a good combination.

    To be powerful is not just to have brute power. It is to be wise, powerful and experienced. Anakin was powerful, but he lacked in the two other disciplines. Yoda, Mace and Sideous did not - neither did OBW, which was the reason he bested Anakin.
  21. sithrules70 Jedi Master

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    May 28, 2005
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  22. Freedan Jedi Knight

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    Oct 30, 2005
    star 1
    Very good point Rossa. A friend here has bought the movie the other day and we went to his room to watch it. Seeing it again, it made e rethink some things I said before. My ideas are pretty fresh now.

    If you ask me now, throughout the entire movie, Anakin has been pretty relaxed about the fights. He was too sure he could defeat Dooku, which was implied in his statement of how he had grown twice as powerful since they last met. The tone with which he said it also implied that his power grew so much he was absolutely certain he could defeat Dooku easily. Arrogance is a great flaw. It leads to overconfidence, which leads to too much relaxation. He defeated Dooku, indeed, meaning that Dooku was perhaps not quite as powerful as Anakin generally speaking. The thing is, Dooku was also very arrogant and overconfident and he believed Anakin was still the weakling he had fought on Geonosis. He was proven far too wrong early on and had to rely on the Super Battle Droids to defeat OB1 by distracting the Jedi. Clearly, Dooku had gotten desperate with OB1 aswell, and that implies the Jedi was better than Dooku if you take account of not just raw power, but every other factor that's important in a fight. To me, that puts OB1 a step above Dooku. Now, putting Anakin and Dooku together, both were overconfident and too sure of themselves, meaning that the contest between the two was one of pure strength and skill. Anakin won on the same conditions as Dooku, so it was, essentially, a fair match. Anakin>Dooku and OB1>Dooku.

    Now, we have Yoda and Mace Windu. Let's take Mace vs Sidious. I still haven't seen the doncumentaries, but I'll take it Mace did overpower Sidious. In the saber fight, I have to say now that Sidious truly wasn't as good as Mace. Judging by the expressions, Sidious truly was struggling against the Jedi. During the saber lock, you can see everything. Sidious was gritting his teeth as he tried to break free, but Mace was just GLARING down on Sidious. That looked kinda scary actually, but it is a very good sign that Mace was on top the fight. Then there's the lightning. I'm going back to Dooku now, but from AOTC. Dooku's lightning was nowhere near as intense as Sid's, and the fact that he had not delved into the Dark Side as much as Sid plays a part, but even against Yoda, Sidious doesn't seem to be putting much energy behind his Lightning, while Sidious put in a LOT more. While OB1, who has nearly no experience of the Dark Side, easily deflected Dooku's lightning, but Mace, who could slip into the shadows and resist temptation better than OB1, found it really hard to block Sid's blast. That implies Sid was really trying to get Mace down but failed. The ROTS novel also suggests Mace had the upper hand on Sidious. So all in all, Mace>Sidious. Anakin only helped Sidious by cutting Mace's hand off.

    Then we have Yoda vs Sidious. Yoda was defeated, and just by saying that, it implies Mace>Yoda, but that isn't neccessarily true. A lot more factors played out against Yoda than they did against Mace. For example, Sid had the chance to keep a safe distance between himself and Yoda, and kept throwing the Senate pods at Yoda to keep him away. And when Sid blasted Yoda with lightning, Yoda had held his own and even pushed Sid off the podium, but as Newton said, to every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. Yoda pushed Sid off, but at the cost of falling off himself, and given his smaller disposition, the same force that threw Sid off had a greater effect on Yoda's smaller mass, ultimately leading to Yoda falling. But let's think. There's a reason Sid wanted to keep away from Yoda, and that was because he knew Yoda was could defeat him. Sidious was afraid. He even tried to escape at the beginning but Yoda was faster to the doorway and blocked his path. Keyword: faster, implying Yoda could defeat Sidious as well. Having said this, all I can say is that Yoda and Mace are even and both could defeat Sidious equally well.

    Back to Anakin and OB1. OB1 bested him even though in terms of raw power, he is not Anakin's equ
  23. Rossa83 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2005
    star 4
    Dammit Freedan, I thought I had put in a rather good post;) Excellent thoughts. I have, as I mentioned, yet to see the DVD version of the film. But I think you are right on the money. I would put both Mace and Yoda above Sideous. Simply because, as you said, Mace bested him. Yoda would have, otherwise Sideous wouldn't have tried to flee, but luckily got the upper hand - Newton was a clever boy!! Sideous laughter reminds me of a nervous laughter. Palpatines great strength was his conciving skills. He was arrogant, just as Anakin. Clearly he underestimated Windu who was amazing in that fight, shame he had to die:(
    I won't bother putting up a list of the characters, because I agree with Freedan! (Anakin is stronger than OBW, but not better. does that make sense?)
  24. Mandalore_X Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2005
    star 3
    The qoute also says Anakin is unstopable.Nic Gillard said Anakin was the most powerful jei that ever live.
  25. sithrules70 Jedi Master

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    May 28, 2005
    star 4
    why does this keep coming back to anakin ?? [face_thinking]

    if this goes to yoda vs sids or mace vs sids is acceptable but why anakin ??[face_thinking]

    anyway to answer the topic yoda is more powerful from my POV he always was and he will always be.
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