Yoda vs Mace: Who is ultimately more powerful?

Yoda lost only because he knew that he had to lose. Yoda knew that if the Jedi were to survive, he would have to live as the Order's survival depended on him and Obi Wan staying in hiding long enough to train more Jedi.

 

I don't know, it seems to me that ROTJ is saying "Sure, you could probably beat me with a saber. But you will never make me what you are." I think the PT is all about how POINTLESS fighting is, and Luke has to go through his journey to learn that for himself.

Ultimately what sets the galaxy back into balance is not a saber duel, but throwing a saber away and choosing not to fight.

 

Yup. I agree.

Yoda is stronger and more powerful than Mace because he has more knowledge of the force.

ex. Stopping lightning without a lightsaber, stopping heavy senate pods in mid-air.

 

I think that Sidious, Yoda, and Mace Windu are all roughly in the same "ballpark." The difference is merely details.

? Sidious while a bit careless with his technique, but has a superior knowlege of the Dark Side as we all know.

? Yoda is a superior manipulator of the good Force, but is probably not better than Mace at strait up Lightsaber techique.

? Windu, while weaker with force manipulation is the master swordsman. He was so good with a lightsaber he invented his own style (btw, it was a style so reckless that it actually killed lesser Jedi who attempted to learn it).

When you add it up, the winner of these fights comes down to one thing: unforseen circumstance.

Mace does best Sidious and could have killed him. But he doesn't, because of the circumstances surrounding the fight. Note: this doesn't mean that Palps wasn't faking: he certianly did have power left over to push him out the window after he claimed he was too weak, but that doesn't change that Mace could have killed him.

Yoda certianly was capable of beating Sidious as well, but again circumstance prevented him from doing so.

Perhaps, it just wasn't ... his destiny.

 

Mace cannot absorb Force Lightning. He has to use his lightsabre. Yoda doesn't. End of story.

 

Define power...

But really Yoda is the wise one and Windu is the powerful one. According to Anakin in AOTC anyway.

 

Y___O___D___A

 

They all have flaws. IMO I think they are all on the same level as many have said. However, it's the situation and how you use your environment. Classic warfare right there.

Mace vs Palpatine= Intense fight. Mace kicked the Palps and he lost his saber. crawled into the corner. I think Anakin was watching at this time. Palps shot his lightning at Mace and Mace was absorbing it bringing his saber closer to palps. Could Sidious have used more energy in his lightning to blast Mace back or was he just putting on a show to lure Anakin? I think all in all, Palpatine had to have Anakin kill Mace. That was his plan. To lure Anakin into striking down a jedi master sealing his fate much like the emperor used Dooku(a step in anakins path to the dark side) and how the Emperor used Vader for Luke to turn. As for the faking part. I think Mace was made to look like he had the upper hand. But remember, Sidious is the mastermind. Always something up his sleeve.

Yoda vs Sidious= Yoda was clouded perhaps when he walked into the room(he did know that Sidious was the Sith master however) and he received heavy foltage from his non green friend. Yoda force pushes the arrogant sith lord over his desk and they ignite sabers. Didnt look like either had an advantage there. Does anyone remember the Ernest movies. In Ernest Scared Stupid, where he goes through his personas talking about maintaing the high ground??? This is very similar, Sidious had the high ground hurling pods at yoda. (i thought they were on the same pod at the beggining and cant remember how yoda left this pod) but anyway, they both showed equal abilities here using force. Both could throw pods. Yoda jumps up to Sidious's level and gets his saber shot away with lightning, thus they went into a lightning fest and neither gained an advantage. They both created a center of lightning too powerful for either of them and both flew backwards. Yoda fell to the ground level and did not have his saber. Sidious was still on the upper deck. Advantage Sidious. Forget about the guards, there were only a few, and we saw how easily yoda took out the RED guards with the force. Yoda was beaten in the situation seeing as how he could not have killed Sidious. That was the objective.

 

Yoda is more powerful IMO.

 

Ultimately, the most powerful is still Yoda, hands down.

Throughout the entire series, it is Yoda pulling off incredible feats of Force strength that NO OTHER Jedi or Sith manages to pull. He is connected to the Force in the strongest of ways. Mace Windu, despite his victory, does not display such skill in the Force.

However.

ROTS really does shake, at least in my opinion, the foundation of "The Dark Side is stronger." And yeah, it still is, but I felt that ROTS really did establish the Jedi Order's attitude to this one simple truth. Indeed, I think the Jedi do acknowledge that the Dark Side leads to great power, but they really did exemplify the fact that they use the Force for Knowledge and Defense.

For instance. Obi-Wan doesn't say to Yoda when they discover Anakin's betrayal, "Master Yoda, let me take the master, I can't defeat Anakin. He's too powerful." In fact, Obi-Wan doesn't for even think for a second that he can't fight Anakin. It's not even a consideration. When he's told that he can't fight the Emperor, he does not refute this. But it's as if both Yoda and Obi-Wan just know that his Jedi skills are good enough to some how best Anakin Skywalker. And he does.

I think Mace Windu exemplified this as well in his fight with Sidious. On some level, Mace was probably outmatched by Sidious' power. But the circumstances were different. Sidious kind of over-estimated his Jedi opponents. He kills three instantly, so he has reason to believe in his skills, but Mace doesn't give the Emperor any time to start hurdling large objects at him. They fight in a confined area, close-quarters. And Mace Windu expertly uses the escaping air-pressure after they break the window as the break he needed to give Sidious the boot to the head. And do note that Sidious doesn't lose his saber because of the kick... but because of the fall. His arm hits the edge of the window and the saber went oops. In any other situation this would have been corrected and Mace may very well have gotten himself smacked down.

So I dont think it really matters that Mace won the fight that he did. The battle was under a completely different context. Note how quickly Sidious smashed Yoda's lightsaber out of his hand with the Force lightning. With Mace, no such quick attempts were made during the fight. Maybe he was shocked at Mace's melee skills, maybe he was being cocky. Who knows. I just don't think Mace was "uber-powerful" just because he won. Sometimes you just don't win the fights that you're supposed to win.

 

Palpatine did fake it to a certain degree.

Okay lets take this step by step:

1. Palp gets knocked on the floor.
2. Palp shoots off lightning at Mace, who blocks it with his light-saber.
3. *WHEN ANAKIN ARIVES* Palps begins to act as though he's weakening and that "he cannot hold on any longer."
4. Anakin chops Maces hand off.
5. Out of no where, Palp hurls a powerful wave of lightning at Mace while screaming "UNLIMITED POWER!"
6. A few seconds later, Palps stands up as if nothing happened.

Yes, he did fake it. Did he plan to get knocked on the floor? No. But obviously, when Anakin arrived, he wanted to seem helpless so that Anakin would assist him and also turn to the Dark Side. C'mon, it's not hard to figure out.

 

Mace Windu beat Palpatine. Yoda didn't defeat Palpatine, but he got the better of him. His blockage of Force lightning was more skilled and masterful than was the case when he faced Dooku on Geonosis. Mace Windu could have killed Palpatine had it not been for Anakin whether he was faking or not.

 

Could Mace really have defeated Palpatine if Anakin had not shown up? That is debating whether or not Palpatine was faking it. If Palpatine was faking it, he was doing so for Anakin. If he wasn't then he was most likely banking on his friendship with Anakin to pay off, thus relying heavily on Anakin showing up. Since Sidious could plot things and basically chessmaster the future I am sure he would have had another strategy to beat Mace if he didnt use Anakin as a pawn. Like the creator said, the only one that can kill sidious is Anakin. To be able to compete with him, you have to be either Mace or Yoda. The point of a victory is the end result. No matter how scabbed you get in the process. The final result is, Mace is dead.

 

To answer the question of the thread, Yoda is widely regarded as the most powerful. The Sith realise it on his arrival (Both Dooku in AOTC and Sidious in ROTS) and Obi Wan compares Ani's midichlorian count to that of Yoda's (not even Master Yoda...).

 

It's so stupid to argue the "Palps was faking it" side because you could just as easily take the "Well, Mace foresaw that Anakin would turn, and this would be the only way that Balance of the force could be obtained, so he let Anakin help Palps out and sacrificed himself" side. Then we get into the "Well, Kit Fisto foresaw that Mace was going to do that, so he let his head get lopped off on purpose" discussions. Let's just go by what we can see, ok. Mace beats Palps. Palps begs for help. Anakin helps, and this furthers his turn to the darkside.

 

Mace admits in the Attack of the Clones, that the jedi's ability to use the force is diminishing. Sure in Revenge of the Sith he smells out a plot to destroy the jedi. But Anakin must break the news to him. Still, going in to fight Palpatine, Mace was still clouded and could not forsee anything happening. Mace is too selfish to sacrifice himself. A little too arrogant also. It isnt completely ludacris to argue the exaggeration on palps part.

 

Yoda more powerful overall. Mace might be better with a blade and he may have edged Sids on that count, but Sids was missin with Mace and could have taken him with force power any moment. When Yoda and Sids went head to head in force power it was a stale mate. They both got pinged off the platform at the same time. Sids came off a bit better because he landed luckier, near a railing. Yoda's a more powerful force user than Mace.

 

Remember the fight between Yoda and Sidious in the Senate? Where Yoda sheathes his lightsaber and stops a pod in mid-air, before sending it back at Sidious?

Look at the expression on Darth Sidious' face as the pod flies back at him. It merely says one thing...

Yoda is stronger than Mace Windu.

Sidious had to muster all his "ultimate power" to combat Yoda. However, he merely used Mace as a means to an end - the final key to unlock the Dark Side in Anakin Skywalker. He only begins to 'lose' when he senses Anakin's presence.

 

Palps may have been faking when he was on his back begging for his life but when they were in the lightsaber duel he was trying his hardest and Mace owned him fair and square.

 

its a toss-up. they both compliment eachothers strengths and weaknesses. Yoda had total control and the knowledge of the living force and was well skilled in combat for his size. also knowledgable, and having seniority, i believe windu was yodas muscle. he had power with the blade.

 

True, Mace fight well, but he has to call upon all his skill with a lightsaber. Look at his sheer determination during the 'saber lock'.

Pure and simple, Palps knew Anakin was coming, and Mace was merely a vehicle for Anakin's fall.

As Palps tells Luke Skywalker in ROTJ - "Everything I have forseen is coming to pass" (or something like that :S)

 

Yoda obviously is more powerful than Mace

Palps was probably faking it...and if he wasnt...he was holding back his sith powers and just going at Mace with a lightsaber...Mace and his Vapaad may have got him through...but i would like to see Mr Pulp Fiction stop senate pods!!!!!!!!!!

Yoda didnt necessarily get beaten either in the movie...the force lightning built up and sent both flying...Yoda got the short end of the stick and was pushed out into the centre chamber and took a pretty bad spill......he was weakened then and knew he didnt have it in him to destroy palps

 

Yoda. Full stop.


By the way, has anybody else noticed that if you turn a clonetroopers mask upside down it looks like jabba the hutt? (see current cool pic at top of 3SA)

 

yoda all the way

palp could of killed mace windu but if he did he might not have been able to turn anakin when he enterd the room.

 

Mace dies.
Palpatine lives.
'Nuff said.

What exactly is "power" though?

[image=http://www.blueharvest.net/images/gonk/gonk5.jpg]

Surely this guys owns the lot of them on that front...?