main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

Yoda was setting Luke up to GET MURDERED!

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by BlueRibbon, Nov 3, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. BlueRibbon

    BlueRibbon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2003
    So Yoda sends Luke off to do battle against Vader and the Emperor, but apparently doesn't even tell him that, although he may defeat Vader, the Emperor is going to microwave him with lightning from his fingertips.

    All Yoda says is, "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor..." but that hardly seems enough! Basically, when Yoda sends Luke off to do this, he is sending him to his death.

    "Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the darkside." - The Emperor.
     
  2. generallee5

    generallee5 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 27, 2003
    if luke hadn't thrown his saber away, he could've blocked the lightning.
     
  3. Lightsabre

    Lightsabre Fan Force Founder star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 1999
    It's like telling a 7th grader who's just started to play football that he's going across the middle. However, you don't tell him Ray Lewis will be waiting.

    This analogy is to demonstrate that Yoda didn't tell Luke the particulars so he would remain confident in his abilities, as green as they were. Besides, Luke was the last hope, that's pressure enough. Why tell him he has a good chance of being turned into a hungry-man dinner.
     
  4. Obi-Wan_and_only

    Obi-Wan_and_only Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2001
    Obi-Wan's saber only deflected Dooku's lighting becasue it shot in a straight line. I'm sure Palpatine's mastery of the force would let him get around that little trick. He'd probably just TK the saber right out of Luke's hand.

    Anyway, what they wanted Luke to do was skewer the Emperor and Vader. Luke decided he would do neither.
     
  5. plutoneam

    plutoneam Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2003
    ^^^I think 'The Glove of Darth Vader' says that the lightsaber blade energy absorbs the force lightning, so it doesn't matter how straight it is.
    I know it's EU, but it's all we have to base it on.
     
  6. Obi-Wan_and_only

    Obi-Wan_and_only Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2001
    TGoDV also has so much crap in it, like Palaptine having a three-eyed son with an alien mistress, that we should forget it even exists.

    anyway, that wasn't true force lightning, it was honest-to-god electrical lightning.
     
  7. WMCoolmon

    WMCoolmon Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Yoda was dying at the time. Give the guy a break. He didn't have the time to tell Luke "If point his fingertips at you Palpatine does, move your Lightsabre to Dathomiran Defense Position 3 to deflect Force Lightning. Clouded, the Dark Side may make your senses. There is no spoon." :p

    There was a reason he told Luke that his training wasn't complete when he left for Cloud City. Yoda just didn't tell Luke so that he wouldn't start doubting himself. Then he'd just do even worse and would be even easier to control.
     
  8. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    Call me crazy, but I think Yoda was sending Luke off to get murdered. He was going to either find a way to bring Anakin back, or die trying. Think about it, what else could he do? There was no time to train Luke for years so he could be a serious threat, so the Jedi had to send him in the way he was.

    Besides, I believe that Yoda, unlike Obi-Wan, never gave up hope in the prophesy fating Anakin to be the one who would ultimately do the deed.
     
  9. Scott3eyez

    Scott3eyez Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2001
    I agree with DLM. Except for the bit about Obi Wan giving up on the prophecy...
     
  10. Xeiah

    Xeiah Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2002
    Yeah that sounds about right to me. It wasn't like Yoda through him a graduation party and said "Fully trained Jedi are you". He obviously had his doughts. Or maybe he thought Luke had the power to defeat both of them but was worried Luke would be too tempted by the dark side? The guy did dress in all black. I guess other Jedis do that now [or rather did that in the old republic] but it seems like maybe GL was just trying to cover his tracks. HUUUUUUMMMMMM.....
     
  11. BlueRibbon

    BlueRibbon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Well maybe Luke wouldn't have thrown the lightsaber aside if he knew he could have blocked the lightening with it?? Why didn't Yoda clue him in on the whole lightening thing. Obviously it was a well-known technique, since Obi-Wan knew about it against Dooku.

    When the Emperor begins frying Luke, he says, "Only now, at the end, do you understand." I take that to mean that only now does Luke know about the Force Lightening (and the true power of the Dark Side).

    Maybe Yoda should have mentioned it!
     
  12. Scott3eyez

    Scott3eyez Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Well, Yoda managed to block lightning with his hand- that doesn't mean that Luke could have done.
     
  13. Obi-Wan_and_only

    Obi-Wan_and_only Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2001
    When the Emperor begins frying Luke, he says, "Only now, at the end, do you understand." I take that to mean that only now does Luke know about the Force Lightening (and the true power of the Dark Side).
    You people have absolutely no sense of story, do you?

    He said that becasue only then did Luke understand that the Dark Side is more powerful, and that Palpy can never be defeated.
     
  14. Captain Needa

    Captain Needa Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 1998
    [blockquote][hr]Call me crazy, but I think Yoda was sending Luke off to get murdered. He was going to either find a way to bring Anakin back, or die trying.[hr][/blockquote]Pretty much my point in the What was Luke supposed to do again? thread. Yoda and Ben were risking either losing Luke to the Dark Side or to death, all in the hope of pulling Anakin back to the good side.
     
  15. BlueRibbon

    BlueRibbon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2003
    I never once heard Yoda or Obi-Wan express any hope or desire to "turn" Vader back to the good side. In fact, Obi-Wan dismissed the idea when Luke brought it up.
     
  16. Darth-Seldon

    Darth-Seldon Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 17, 2003
    Maybe Yoda did tell him.
    but if they did it on screen then the audience would already know and there would be no suprise and all during the fight you would know that Luke would win.

    SELDON
     
  17. BlueRibbon

    BlueRibbon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2003
    Well, Luke seemed pretty damned surprised when he start getting owned by those lightning bolts. Also, like I said, the Emperor's words about "...only now, at the end, do you understand..." seem to suggest that it was indeed a surprise.
     
  18. Coligeon

    Coligeon Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 20, 2002
    Like Obi-Wan_and_only said, he wasn't really talking about the surprise of force lighting - just the overall domination the dark side has on basically....everything. I'm sure Luke didn't know what in the world was going on as soon as the bolts came at him though. Perhaps Obi Wan in Ep. 2 didn't either, he could have just sensed Dooku's actions and made a good guess for all we know. I'm not to sure Yoda whips out some force lighting on the younglings with lightsabers in hand to show them they can block it ^_^.
     
  19. Loco_for_Lucas

    Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Well, Yoda advised Luke to never underestimate the powers of the Dark Side. His lowering his defenses was his own fault, true, it served a better purpose, but he did just that. He underestimated the Emperor and assumed he was a harmless old man, he wasn't aware of what the Dark Side could do.
     
  20. MikeSolo

    MikeSolo Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2002
    Yoda did not set Luke up...Luke set himself up because he was not patient. Remember Luke ran off to save his friends when he could of stayed and completed his training with Yoda. Luke lacked patience and that got his hand chopped off and nearly killed. Yoda probably could of taught him about the Paply's skills but Luke was impatient didn't listen to Yoda or Obi Wan.
     
  21. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    Let's say Yoda did expect Luke to survive and hold his own. What would happen then? If he didn't kill both of them and escape unharmed, and I don't think it was reasonable to expect him to do that, he probably would have had to give in to the dark side.
     
  22. WMCoolmon

    WMCoolmon Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 19, 2002
    Well maybe Luke wouldn't have thrown the lightsaber aside if he knew he could have blocked the lightening with it?? Why didn't Yoda clue him in on the whole lightening thing. Obviously it was a well-known technique, since Obi-Wan knew about it against Dooku.

    Again, when would he do it? Remember that Yoda tried to keep Luke from going because "his training wasn't complete." That probably included the Advanced Sith Countering 101 class that would have explained the whole fingertip-lightning deal.
    Most of the exercises seen in ESB seemed like basic Jedi skills. Lifting rocks, meditating, focus, etc etc. Maybe some lightsaber training. I would guess that just after ESB, Luke had the equivelant of a Junior High-level Jedi degree.
    In between ESB and ROTJ, he seemed to refine those. Then in ROTJ he went to Yoda's, Yoda died, and he chatted with Obi-wan about his origins.


    Or maybe Luke did know about Force lightning. Maybe he purposely left himself open to attack, hoping that Vader would turn to the light side. A do or die approach to the situation. Maybe Luke knew that he wasn't able to stop the Emperor himself, so he tried to get DV to overthrow ( :p) him. If he died and it didn't happen, nothing would be lost - and the DSII would be blown up in a few minutes anyway.
     
  23. Erk

    Erk Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Luke didn't expect DV to turn. He just knew that killing is wrong. Therefore he didn't even kill the emperor instead he sacrificed himself. He let faith win over reason. Yoda on the other hand expected Luke to understand that once you've rendered DV unharmful it's just chopeti-chop and the emperor would be no more. Yoda reasoned correctly but as this is a quasimyth faith in good must conquer.

     
  24. BlueRibbon

    BlueRibbon Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2003
    A lot of interesting ideas here, but I feel that most of you are grasping at straws in order to explain this. The only legit answer I can think of is that Yoda might have meditated and foreseen Vader switching over. He might have seen the whole thing in advance. In that case, he knew Vader would switch and Luke only had to show up and do his thang.
     
  25. Scott3eyez

    Scott3eyez Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 1, 2001
    Maybe Yoda knew of some sort of prophecy...
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.