Yoda's knowledge of the darkside

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Obi-WanLeroy, Jan 24, 2003.

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  1. Obi-WanLeroy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 1
    Anyone else ever wonder why Yoda never taught Luke how to defend the Emperor's lighting bolts the same way he defended Count Dooku's.


    Holla!
  2. Admiral_JasterMereel Tucson FF Founding Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2002
    star 4
    Yoda probably only thought that Luke would be battling Darth Vader... That's basically what Luke set out to do, confront his father and bring him back. Then the two could finish the Emperor together. [EDIT]Just a speculation... :D

    You Rebel Scum!
    ~Bôba Fe++
  3. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I think it would take a while to reach a level of Force mastery to be able to absorb and deflect Force Lightning. Obi-Wan could've at least told Luke that he could deflect it with his saber.
  4. Admiral_JasterMereel Tucson FF Founding Member

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    Jun 3, 2002
    star 4
    I know, really :( . But I guess from a certain point of view, it would be hard to understand... :D

    You Rebel Scum!
    ~Bôba Fe++
  5. dArTh_wenley Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2001
    star 5

    I'm sure that, given time,Yoda would have taught Luke that technique.

    But of course Luke has to rush off an save his friends... ;)
  6. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    Yep...those Skywalkers are an impulsive bunch. I also remember something about Yoda probing the Dark Side in AOTC.
  7. Admiral_JasterMereel Tucson FF Founding Member

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2002
    star 4
    Ah, yes. I heard something about that, but not enough. If you watch E2, in the beginning when Yoda and the others are with Palpatine, Palpie finishes Padme's sentance (as though he, I dunno, maybe read her mind with his Sith powers...). Yoda looks at him and squints his eyes almost as though he knows. It's cool. :D

    You Rebel Scum!
    ~Bôba Fe++
  8. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I believe in the AOTC novel it mentions that Yoda was probing the Dark Side while Anakin was slaughtering the Tuskens.

    I really have a hard time believing Yoda wouldn't be able to sense what's going on with Palpy, but it appears that he doesn't. It's looking more and more like E3 will add a lot of weight to many things said in the OT.
  9. Admiral_JasterMereel Tucson FF Founding Member

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    Jun 3, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah, I guess...

    You Rebel Scum!
    ~Bôba Fe++
  10. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    Actually, I think Yoda intentionally neglected to teach Luke how to respond to Force lightning. Remember that regardless of what Yoda said, he was sending Luke there not so he could kill Vader and the Emperor himself, but so he could catalyze sleeper agent Anakin into fulfilling his destiny. Yoda was counting on Palpy to use Force lightning against a helpless Luke because he knew the sight would stir up bad memories for Anakin, and the more helpless Luke seemed, the more likely Anakin was to break through his bonds.
  11. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "catalyze sleeper agent"

    Mara! These words are from my post (though, not in this order). :eek:
    I'm supposed to copy you, remember!?! [face_laugh]

    Actually, I was reviewing ROTJ for another purpose, and hit on this quote from Luke to Palps - "Soon, I'll be dead, and you with me."
    He's referring to the imminent attack on the DS, which Palps replies he's aware of.

    This is very interesting. If you recall, I said that Luke was "sacrificing" himself by putting himself in harm's way for his father. It would appear that I did not go far enough. Luke was anticipating dying on the Death Star with his father. Does this imply that Luke knew he couldn't defeat the Emperor one on one, and was content to distract the Emperor until Lando blew them all to hell? (If so, then so much for the "Luke defeating other Darths" thread :D )

    Oh, there's a different topic for this thread.
    I don't think Yoda is aware of the extent of Palp's powers. Over and over again, Yoda complains about not being able to sense the current situation, or forsee the future. It's not that he's incapable, but the Dark Side has put a "shroud" over him. He's never had to work under these conditions, and it's really pissing him off.

    (Okay, I might have made up that last point. ;) )
  12. RKMeibalane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 2
    I think Luke was willing to die if it meant bringing down Palpatine in the process. He may have been counting on his father escaping and rebuilding the Jedi Order himself.

    I've always wondered what would have happened had Vader survived the Battle of Endor, and Palpatine and Luke had died. Just a thought.
  13. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    That would've been interesting had Vader survived and Luke and Palpy died. Freaky...

    It appears more and more that Luke was the sacrificial lamb used to lure Anakin back to the Light Side.
  14. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Is it my imagination, or does Mara not respond to me anymore? :(
  15. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    Oh, come on. You gave me all of three hours?! [face_laugh]

    Luke was anticipating dying on the Death Star with his father. Does this imply that Luke knew he couldn't defeat the Emperor one on one, and was content to distract the Emperor until Lando blew them all to hell?

    I think it goes further yet. Not only did Luke believe he would die (or at least tell Vader that was what he intended in the hope it would convince Anakin to wake up), but Yoda intended to send Luke to his death there. Luke was the expendable one in this whole plot. He was a pawn thrown in to make Vader go ahead with his plan of killing Palpatine, but not for the reason of taking the throne for himself as he'd originally intended.

    //buys a round of drinks all around to celebrate her thousandth post devaluing Luke and presenting Vader as the hero of the trilogy and the universe. Have you noticed I'm more a Vader fan than a Luke fan?

    I don't think Yoda is aware of the extent of Palp's powers. Over and over again, Yoda complains about not being able to sense the current situation, or forsee the future.

    Ah, but that doesn't actually make Yoda weaker than Palpatine. It just makes him more humble. Palpy apparently couldn't see the future as well as he claimed, either, or he wouldn't have gone ahead with "Palpy's folly" at Endor. And, for further contrast, notice that he's not even aware of Yoda's existence, let alone his actions, while Yoda seems to have at least some sense of what Palpy is up to.

    The tables have turned since the time of the PT; it used to be Palpatine who was in control, confusing the Jedi, but now the Jedi are the ones who are successfully evading scrutiny from the opposition. I think Yoda learned something from the Purge.
  16. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I also agree Yoda learned something from the purge. I'm also a huge Vader fan.

    ;)
  17. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    (But you didn't devote your entire profile bio to Vader, did you? ;) )
  18. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    You go, Mara :D

    [missed you!]
  19. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

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    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    No...I sure didn't. I devoted it to my birth year falling during the Year of the Dragon.
  20. D_Lowe Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 6
    If you read the novel of AOTC, no current living Jedi had seen Force lightning until Dooku used against Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda. Yoda most likely knew about it since he had a clear understanding of the rule of two. Anyway, Yoda did say something to Luke about the Emperor, "Do not underestimate the powers of the Emperor." Is that some sort of warning. A hurry up warning because I'm going to die and I'm trying to give you as much advice as possible before that happens. Yoda dies trying to complete the word Skywalker. Luke was crazy to throw his weapon aside when he decided to not kill Vader. You got to wonder if Luke really thought the Emperor was defensless because the Emperor said so. All of this did set up so Anakin could fullfill the prophecy and bring balance back to the Force. The good guys win at the end and that was the important part.
  21. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    I have read the novel, but I don't always rely on them.

    D_Lowed, what you say does seem to make sense. I'm just wondering if there's a reason why Kenobi and Yoda took care of the Force lightning so easily and effortlessly. Kenobi did't say, "Wow, where'd that come from? Good show, old man!" He said, "I don't think so," as if to say he knew that was coming. He didn't even jump!

    Perhaps it's meaningless, and was simply for dramatic effect, but the possibilities are interesting.
  22. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    I think it's a combination of dramatic effect and the intuition of Obi-Wan, and Yoda was just strong enough to deal with it.
  23. RKMeibalane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 2
    Yoda is by no means weaker than Palpatine. As someone else mentioned, he is more humble, and I think he is also more aware of the will of the Force. Yoda understands that a Jedi or Sith may control the Force for brief periods of time, but the Force also controls all living things. Everything that occurs does so because it was the will of the Force.

    I think it's interesting to note the reversal of fortunes that exists when examine the entire Star Wars sage.

    In the PT, Palpatine is clearly masking his identity from the Jedi, but Yoda seems to be suspicious of him. At the very least, Yoda was probably questioning his motives when he completed Amidala's sentence for her. Yoda may in fact be aware of something that isn't right about Palpatine. I, for one, don't think Yoda trusts him at all.

    In the OT, Palpatine never suspects that Darth Vader will betray him. Time and time again, Vader stands but a few feet away from him, but Palpatine does not notice the presence of Anakin Skywalker. This is probably the best example of Palpatine's overconfidence. He assumed everything would fall into place for him, not realizing that the Force itself may have had other things in mind.

    Palpatine was a fool. In his arrogance, he believed he could bend the Force into whatever instrument he saw fit. In hindsight, I'm not the least bit surprised that Anakin Skywalker was choosen as a sort "secret agent" of the Force, in order to destroy Palpatine.
  24. Master Salty Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 1999
    star 6
    Hmmm...you're suggesting Anakin was conceived just to destroy the Sith?
  25. RKMeibalane Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 2
    I think Anakin was conceived for a number of reasons. First and foremost, he was needed as an agent to destroy the Jedi. Why was this done? Because the Jedi Order of the Old Republic had grown old, stale, and arrogant. They needed to be replaced, so Anakin was used to destroy them.

    Next, he was needed to "watch" Palpatine under the guise of Darth Vader. Finally, with the help of his son, Anakin was able to remerge from the Dark Side and destroy Palpatine; thus, bringing balance to the Force. As a result of his actions, the Sith were destroyed, and Luke remained to restore the Jedi Order- a new Jedi Order.
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