Yoda's lightsaber skills

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by darthwingduck398686, Jul 15, 2006.

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  1. darthwingduck398686 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Is anyone else kind of dissapointed that we didnt get to see Yoda win an actual duel with an opponent? Its basically a draw when he faces dooku since he had to save anakin and obi-wan. And he loses to the emperor in ROTS. Sure we see him kill clonetroopers, but stll....
  2. That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2001
    star 6
    Well the ultimate problem is the set up. Within the confines of the movie, there's only so many villains able to give so many heroes a run for their money.
    Dooku couldn't die yet and neither could Palpatine or Anakin.
    People were complaining about villain overload as it was. I suppose he could have gone after Grievous.
    However, I think the implication is that Yoda won against Dooku. Otherwise why would Dooku flee if he held the upper hand? You can lose a duel and be smart enough to fight another day of course.
    In the original script, it was much clearer that Yoda had won of course.
  3. sith_rising Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2004
    star 4
    Considering that he's like 3 feet tall, I'd say he did ok.
  4. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Yoda lost to Palpatine, but he won against Dooku.

    Not every duel has to end decisively. Dooku decided he was unable to win so he withdrew. Yoda "held the field."
  5. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

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    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    "Wars not make one great"
  6. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

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    Yoda: Help you I can. Yes, mmmm.

    LUKE: I don't think so. I'm looking for a great warrior.

    Yoda: Ahhh! A great warrior. Wars not make one great.
  7. masteryoda5 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2006
    star 1
    I thought we saw enough of him. He clearly showed that his light saber skills are unmatched, although he didn't win any of his fights.
    Against Lord Tyranus, he showed he was the better one, he forced Tyranus to flee.
    Agaist Lord Sidious, he dismantled him. Sidious lost his light saber against Master Yoda. Then he relied on his force powers.

    Euhm, one more thing. Who said Master Yoda lost from Lord Sidious? What I saw on screen was a jedi who was far greater in lightsaber duels, who dismantled his oponent. It came to a force duel and there the jedi, threw back everything the dark lord gave. If it wasn't for his bad positioning on the pod, the sith lord was a goner. But then again it wasn't the destiny of Yoda to bring balance to the force.

    The last thing, Yoda never won a duel because it wasn't possible. All his oponent had to survive for more time on screen. The caracter of Tyranus wasn't still over and Sidious lives in the OT. As simple as that.

    MasterYoda5[face_alien_1]
  8. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

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    Euhm, one more thing. Who said Master Yoda lost from Lord Sidious?


    YODA: Into exile I must go. Failed, I have.
  9. jedi_prime Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2005
    star 2
    Yoda did lose the match with Sidious. Not because he was weaker, but because he had more at stake. He had to destroy Sidious to gain victory. All Sidious had to do was survive in order to win. There is a very bright line distinction to be made between these two goals.

    Yoda did outmatch Sidious blade-to-blade. Yoda was able to block the Force lightning with his bare hands, and thus we ended up with the explosion hurling both Sidious and Yoda backwards.

    Yoda failed in that he did not kill Sidious. Sidious did not kill Yoda, but this was not an issue, as he already held all the cards.
  10. JAWA64 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2006
    star 3
    Yes well said. They made it so that yoda couldn't kill Palps or Dooku, and they couldn't send him after Greivous. Obi Wan had to kill Greivous because he didn't do well against Dooku and people would have thought he would never win against Anakin.
    Yoda lost not because of skill. It was partially because of goals and partially because of luck(Palps might have lost had he been on the side of the platform Yoda was on}.
  11. jedi_jacks Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2005
    star 4
    I was surprised how aggressive Yoda's fighting style was. relentless, maybe more aggressive than Mace Windu and his Vapaad style.
  12. yaddidameen Jedi Knight

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    Jun 13, 2005
    star 3
    I don't know man, I think yoda's style was a bit passive. I'm of the opinion that yoda doesn't necessarily aim to kill, or even maim for that matter. He seemed more like someone who looks to contain his opponent rather than ending the said opponent. Yoda's skill is legendary, which I think the films support. I don't think he needed a victory to prove his superiority, he did just fine with the duels he was in.
  13. OBIJUAN76 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2006
    star 2
    I'm not so sure if I agree with the first thing you said. "That Yoda's style was a bit passive". True, when watching his duel with Dooku, I got the impression that he was sort of "toying" with Dooku to see how truely skilled he was with a saber. Obviously, if Dooku would have stayed then he would have been toast. I do like what you said in the second part of your post: Yoda's skill is legendary, which I think the films support". "I don't think he needed a victory to prove his superiority, he did just fine in the duels he was in". I agree 100%!!!! I think that the best example of Yoda's superiority was witnessed in his duel with Sids. I loved that duel. We're not exactly sure, but we can assume that Yoda disarmed his saber, and he was able to deflect the Sith lightning with his hands. Those two accomplishments in themself were victories in my opinion. I thought that Lucas did a great job by "building up" that scene with the pod raising itself into the Senate chambers, and the drums beating in the background! But ultimately we all knew that Yoda could not kill Sids, only Anakin could do that. Nevertheless, I think that Yoda proved himself to be the indisputed "most powerful lightsaber duelist in the entire PT". Yes, I do think that Mace is powerful, but not quite as skilled as Yoda; with Sids coming in slightly behind Mace. Good post yaddidameen!
  14. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    Yoda's lightsaber skills are up there with the best of them. He lost only to Palpatine because of CIRCUMSTANCE, not lightsaber skills, who won the saber locks argument still has the majority of people stating that Yoda was the victor of saber skills.

    His style is different naturally. Kind of annoying in AOTC but the look of the duel in ROTS is easier on your eyes, so a much better job done.

    I think Dooku should of struggled more with Yoda and had him force move the column only when he was really struggling or hurt.

    The PT had us believe that Yoda was the ultimate jedi master but in reality he has a supposed draw and loss to his name. All circumstance of course but nevertheless.
  15. Carnage04 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2005
    star 5


    In my opinion, Yoda did not win or lose either of his fights. Other Saga Lightsaber fights.

    Maul vs. Qui-Gon - Qui-Gon took off because he had to get the Queen to Coruscant. He did not lose, he had somewhere else to be. If he didn't have to worry about putting everyone on that Naboo Royal Yacht in danger, he would have stayed to fight.

    Maul Vs. Qui-Gon + Obi-Wan - Qui-Gon lost followed by Maul losing to Obi-Wan. Luck, arrogance, whatever. Obi-Wan lived and Maul got cut in half and fell down a pit.

    Anakin + Obi-Wan vs. Dooku - Anakin got zapped and lost an arm, Obi-Wan got sliced up. They were at Dooku's mercy. Dooku won.

    Yoda Vs. Dooku - Dooku's main objective was to make sure he survived and got the Death Star plans to Geonosis. Yoda PROBABLY would have beaten him in time, but like Qui-Gon in TPM, Dooku had somewhere to be.......and a room already filled with the greatest Jedi Master and likely soon some Clones and more Jedi wasn't it.

    Anakin + Obi-Wan Vs. Dooku II - Obi-Wan got whipped. He lost. Dooku ended up with no head. He lost. Anakin won. So did Sidious....but that's another story.

    Obi-Wan Vs. Grievous - GG done got himself killed. Obi-Wan wins.

    Mace & Crew vs. Sidious (Anakin intervention) - Mace and company lost. Sure Sidious may have been begging for his life. Sure it's possible Mace could have defeated Sidious, but when it comes down to it, Mace lost an arm, was electrocuted, and tossed out the window. Sidious wasn't.

    Obi-Wan vs. Anakin - Anakin lost three limbs and got burned to a crisp. Obi-Wan didn't flee, he thought Anakin was very much dead. Obi-Wan wins.

    Sidious Vs. Yoda - Could Yoda have made a comeback from the ground? Probably. Would he have won and killed Sidious? Maybe.....I personally doubt it.... However, he realized that he had somewhere more important to be - with Obi-wan recreating the order the way it should be. If he happened to die, the knowledge of Qui-Gon dies with him. He had somewhere else to be, and that somewhere else wasn't a room with a Sith Lord that was soon to be full of clones. ;)

    My point....I guess I'm trying to say that every fight had a clear outcome except for Qui-Gon/Maul and The Yoda duels. Like it or not, but he didn't beat Dooku nor did he lose to Sidious. In all those cases we saw a strategic withdrawal take place by one of the combatants. When the odds are stacked against you and there is a chance to fight another day with better odds, you leave. Why take unecessary chances?

    It is tough that we didn't see Yoda absolutely show some vulger display of force power. In my opinion, I think that Obi-Wan should not have blocked Dooku's lightning. Granted, he did it with a lightsaber while Yoda used his bare hands...but I think it diminished Yoda a bit. The first time we see force lightning, RoTJ, it's just devestating Luke Skywalker. The second time we see it, Dooku is devestating Anakin Skywalker. The third time, Jedi KNIGHT Obi-Wan is stickin out his lightsaber to block it. Errr.........what's so good about this lightning, anyway? Let Obi-Wan have closed in on Dooku as he was frying Anakin, start the swordplay and let things continue from there. What we get out of that is the first person blocking force lightning being Yoda. It wasn't necessary for both Obi-Wan and Yoda to have the same force stand down with Dooku. Allowing only Yoda and Mace to block force lightning would have demonstrated how much more powerful they were than the others.

    Carnage

  16. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Yoda lost the duel. The movie makes it clear enough.

    What is happening in the last instant is that Palpatine is hurling lightning against a Force Shield that Yoda is holding in front of him. When Palpatine's lightning gets too intense, Yoda's shield bursts and he is thrown back out of the pod.

    Add all this together with Yoda basically admitting that he was beaten, and you realize that, if the duel had not ended where it did, Palpatine would have killed Yoda.
  17. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    Yes and No!

    Yoda was on par with Palpatine all the way. Better with a saber, so edged it. Palpatine had the "high ground" and was at an advantage. He won the duel because of circumstance simply because Yoda was on the edge of the pod, where as Palpatine was deep inside it. Add that to the weight difference between the two, oh, and I noticed Palpatine was sent a good distance and just managed to hold on. If he was on the egde like Yoda where would he be? On the bottom of the senate room.

    Palpatine won because of CIRCUMSTANCE. plain and simple. Yoda failed because he fell instead of the Emperor but there was a great deal of luck in that.
  18. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I agree that Yoda lost and Palpatine won due to circumstance.
  19. RebelScum77 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2003
    star 6
    I definitely agree with this. I also like to think that Yoda also meant "failed" in a more general sense, as in he failed to protect the Jedi from the Sith, or the Republic from the Empire. Alot of Yoda's lines have double meanings.

    The way things did end up was a matter of circumstance. It was very evenly matched and impossible to say who would have beat whom had the fight been allowed to continue. Many of the fights in the PT are circumstantial, if there were multiple fights with Yoda/Sidious, Mace/Sidious, Anakin/Obi-Wan, you'd probably having varying outcomes, not one person continually winning out of the pair.
  20. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Yoda was just not impressive in the PT. and I agree that both his fights were basically draws.

    But the PT just lowered him as a Jedi, from the perspective of his ability to use the Force and definitely as a leader (in which he was a complete joke).
  21. voodoopuuduu Classic Trilogy Trivia Host

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    But the PT just lowered him as a Jedi, from the perspective of his ability to use the Force and definitely as a leader (in which he was a complete joke).

    I dont think that. When we first meet him in ESB, hes a crazy old senile meddlesome creature. I think fans were awed by Yoda in the OT mostly because Obi-Wan had such high regard for him. As far as leaderships goes, yes Yodas is better at one-on-one situations, rather than deciding on group policy. One-on-one, he was just as good in the PT as the OT with Luke.
  22. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Yoda did not lose because of circumstance.

    He was, as far as he knew, the very last hope of the Jedi. If he had had ANY doubt in his mind that Palpatine would have eventually won and killed him, he would have got back up and kept fighting. Or else, he would be a complete coward for leaving.

    It had nothing to do with the Will of the Force, because he knew not of the existance of Luke or Leia.

    It had nothing to do with stormtroopers, because Palpatine did not call them until Yoda fled, and indeed Palpatine looked at Yoda as a challenge to be conquered and he would not have ruined it by admitting defeat.

    Yoda lost because he could NOT WIN. He knew it, and that is why he left.

    The movie made it abundantly clear.

    If Yoda FELT he had the advantage, and he ran away because he got knocked out due to random circumstances, then he is a complete wuss, IMHO.

    If he "ran away and lived to fight another day" because he knew he would die if he kept fighting that day, that makes him a strategist who could look past the present moment.
  23. OBIWAN-JR Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2002
    star 6
    >>>> Yoda was just not impressive in the PT. and I agree that both his fights were basically draws.

    Dooku fled. He knew he was beaten.
    I think if you look carefully at ROTS, you will see that Sidious does not have his saber and Yoda still has his.
    As a swordsman, Yoda has clearly whupped ol' Palpy. Hence his resorting to throwing things at the little green one.


    >>>> But the PT just lowered him as a Jedi, from the perspective of his ability to use the Force and definitely as a leader (in which he was a complete joke).

    But you're working backwards, GDS.
    You're thinking in terms of what you knew of Yoda from the OT.
    But clearly by the time of the OT, Yoda has learned much based on his experiences in the PT....

    -JR :)
  24. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Wasn't it Yoda who was running around trying not to get smashed? Yoda can't even throw the Pods back straight at Palpatine. If you pay attention, he misses a STATIONARY Palpatine.

    So, once you get past the banal contest of swords, Palpatine is in control the entire way. Surely, Force Mastery is greater than swordsmanship.
  25. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    Sidious fan by any chance???

    Yoda can't even throw the Pods back straight at Palpatine. If you pay attention, he misses a STATIONARY Palpatine

    Err, is that the same Palpatine that jumped out of the pods way?
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