PT Yoda's look at Palpatine in Episode II

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Carbon1985, Apr 25, 2013.

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  1. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    I couldn't find this topic discussed before, but when Yoda looks at Palpatine at the beginning of Episode II while Palpatine is talking to Padme. Does anyone think he is suspiciously looking at Palpatine and his motives, or am I trying to read into a scene that Lucas had no intentions of going there at that point of the trilogy?
  2. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6
    Lucas did intend for Yoda to be suspicious of Palpatine. He can't put his finger on it, but there's something a little bit off about him.





    - You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father.
    - He is a political idealist, not a murderer.

    /LM
  3. Jedi General Gelderd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2004
    star 5
    There's a few moments in the PT where I think Yoda pulls a few faces of suspicion, doubt and worry about Palpatine's ideas and actions. All the way through, he's the only one who's got the major concerns about the path they are taking.

    It's like he feels something isn't quite right, but has no idea due to the shroud of the Dark Side blinding him, which is why it's fitting he takes the battle to him at the end of 'ROTS'.
    Last edited by Jedi General Gelderd, Apr 25, 2013
  4. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    I think Lucas had some things planned out more than people give him credit for. For example, Anakin glaring at Mace when the Council rejects him in TPM. I've always thought since ROTS came out that Lucas had planned to have Mace be the one Anakin helps kill to signify his turn. It was just the obvious choice, Mace was there to represent the betrayal of the Jedi, fitting that it is one of the more distrustful Masters. But anyway, Yoda's look at Palpatine is interesting in what it may imply. I have read people say that the scene where Mace and Palpatine meet after Palpatine is rescued in ROTS (The scene where Mace ask if he is alright and then Palps shifts the blame to Grievous) had an undertone of suspicion and disrespect. I'm not sure if I see this, but the Yoda expression in AOTC is far more solid. Don't get me wrong, Mace and Palpatine did seem to be keeping up appearances, it's just that I don't think Mace suspects he is being played until later in the movie. My memory of the novelisation is foggy, I could be wrong, but it seems to me Palpatine is still well shrouded at this stage. I do like the fact that the Jedi feel that Palpatine is connected to the Sith earlier than the reveal, this makes sense. Back more directly on-topic, tbh Yoda doesn't seem suspicious enough of Palpatine in AOTC. Yes, the look mentioned is there, but outside of the novelisation the Jedi get totally duped. Although the Jedi do take part in the plotting game against Palpatine ("The Jedi Council will make up it's own mind who is to go. Not the Chancellor.") and there is the line "to a dark line of thought this could carry us. Great care we must take", I don't think they really suspect enough until it is too late. They don't object to the use of Clones in AOTC, and despite many hints at the animosity between the Jedi and Palpatine ("Yes. The one we've been looking for") it doesn't save them. I guess this is to be expected from a tragedy though. Everyone has a part in the Jedi's downfall. But I'm rambling, the main point of discussion... Yoda's suspicion of Palpatine specifically in this AOTC scene is a neat touch. It's hard to say what he is actually thinking, but it's fun to speculate. Although, to me, Palpatine seems to be a far more interesting character to analyse than the Jedi of the PT, like "was he suggesting Obi-Wan be assigned to Padme to get Anakin and Padme together?", the Jedi make honourable protaganists. You can really sense Yoda's sadness when Obi-Wan watched the security hologram of Anakin's dark deeds. He obviously saw it coming far more than Obi-Wan. I like Yoda's confidence after Sidious' identity is revealed, both the Sith and the Jedi are dedicated to their cause, and it shows in Yoda's demeanor as he confronts The Emperor in the ultimate showdown, plus in Anakin's and Obi-Wan's exchange before their duel. This is followed by Yoda's self-proclaimed failure as he realises the Jedi haven't adapted to fight the modern incarnation of the Sith. You get the feeling this is a burden he still carries in the OT, and it is satisfying when the Jedi ultimately trump the Sith in ROTJ. The scene in question, I think Yoda knew more than he let on, but it wasn't enough... you can tell the revelation is a shock to the Jedi in ROTS ("A Sith Lord?!?). While some may say the cloud of the darkside is cheap plot device, it sets up Anakin's turn beautifully, and re-enforces that the characters live in a mystical world where the rules of our universe don't apply. I know I'm not saying much about Yoda's expression, but the topic just got me thinking. To summarise, I think this moment was a much needed re-enforcement that the Jedi weren't that dumb, and while they didn't follow through on it, you really feel their struggle and loss in ROTS, and cheer when they return. At least, I do.
  5. Skelter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 1
    I think you might be reading a tad to much into the look. I am sure that if Yoda would have had any inkling that Palpatine was the sith Lord, he would have killed him right then and there...MY friends, Yoda doesn't mess around with that. Sure, he might have thought Palpatine seemed a bit shady, but that's it...He probably thought of him as a crooked politician, nothing more.
  6. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yeah, there wasn't a specific intent for Anakin to be the one who kills Mace-they even seem to have a shade of respect for each other in AOTC-Anakin names Windu as one of his comparisons for Obi-Wan, and Mace mentions that Anakin's skill are exceptional. Also, they at least toyed with have Mace be killed by Boba in ROTS; there's storyboard art for the sequence.

    Their share-glare was just one of those things that worked out in the end.
    BoromirsFan likes this.
  7. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    But Lucas does pan to Yoda (for a split second) as Palpatine is talking to Padme, and that is what made me wonder if there is intent. My point is that when Palpatine is talking to Padme, why would Lucas even show Yoda unless he meant to show him kinda of eyeing up Palpatine that possibly something doesn't quite seem right.
  8. Darth Chiznuk PT Trivia Master / Game Host

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I totally agree that he look suspicious of Palpatine. I've always took it as Yoda's first inkling that there is something not quite right with Palpatine. I think up to that point Yoda thought that Palpatine was just another ambitious politician but with the look he seems to be sensing something deeper in the Chancellor. It might be the first inkling of the dark side surrounding him but Yoda can't quite put his finger on it. It's a great little moment.
  9. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    A lot of good that look did him!
  10. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    If Yoda wasn't so focused on deciding if he thought Palpatine was a Sith Lord or not, more attention would have been put into Anakin. I feel like Yoda was so invested in finding out about who Palpatine was and if he had anything to do with the situation that he lost sight of Anakin's falling. "I will not let these visions come true, master." Shouldn't that statement from Anakin have been a rad flag that suggests that Anakin needs help with what he's struggling with? So much could have been done if time was taken away from finding the Sith Lord and more time was put into building Anakin up instead of pushing him aside.

    In short, Yoda was pretty suspicious of Palpatine.
  11. Master Jedi Macen Arren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2013
    star 1
    I absolutely love the look Yoda gives Palpatine, although like most I'm unsure as to what it meant. Personally I think that it is the moment when Yoda first becomes suspicious of Palpatine. It's like that look you get when you know somethings not right but you can't quite put your finger on it (when you get a gut feeling about something). Yoda is a lot more in tune then most Jedi, it's as if he can sense something's not quite right. That's why I believe for the rest of AOTC and ROTS Yoda is more cautious then the others.
  12. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    The pan ties in with the shady-politician conversation that Kenobi and Skywalker had in Padme's apartment.
    "I have observed the Chancellor..." Yoda was doing just that, the look was meant to convey no warm feelings.
    Last edited by SithStarSlayer, Apr 25, 2013
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  13. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    what SSS and Skelter said,

    it was just a simple "you're a a bit of a phony politician really"

    he definately didn't think he was a darksider.
  14. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    If he did, I wonder if they still would have asked Anakin to spy on him?
  15. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    definately not.

    Well this is the PT Jedi, they might have done :p

    they like making a rod for their own back ;)
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  16. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 3
    The Jedi don't trust politicians. Obi Wan was even wary of Padme.
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  17. Garrett Atkins Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2013
    star 4
    I think the OP is overthinking this.
  18. Samnz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 2
    There aren't many scenes with both the Jedi and Palpatine in a room, so I think they were very conscious to show some distrust or suspicion between the them. Ben Burtt talks about it on the DVD. He said they had a lot of discussions about how much the Jedi should/shoudn't know or feel.
    It's not just Yoda in that scene, but when Padmé enters the room in the background the focus of the camera remains on Mace for some secods who seems to be contemplative/doubtful/worried about the political situation and the Jedi's role in it ("...not soldiers").

    I don't think they ever thought Palpatine might be the Sith-Lord until ROTS, but I could see Yoda realizing how less he knows about the origins and motives of this man who serves as chancellor for ten years now in that moment.
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  19. Ambervikings91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2012
    star 2
    Yoda for sure was suspicious about palpatine
  20. Carbon1985 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2013
    star 3
    When you watch the movies a zillion times, you tend to overthink stuff in a galaxy, far, far, away [face_laugh]
  21. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    I think it's meant as a visual cue to the audience to be suspicious. As we are shown in AOTC, the Jedi are complete morons, so there's absolutely no in-film evidence that Yoda is piecing anything together.
    Last edited by janstett, Apr 27, 2013
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  22. Chewbacca89 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 2012
    star 5
    pic? link?
  23. TheMadHatter Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2009
    star 4
  24. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Yoda had just farted, and he was making sure that nobody realized it.
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  25. Son of a Bith Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2013
    star 4
    [IMG]
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