Yoda's role in the Jedi Order.

I know that Yoda was the Grand Master of the Jedi Order, but what exactly does that title entail? Was he the actual head of the Order, or was just first among equals on the Council. Is he comparable to the Pope, or is he just the oldest knight of the Order? Opinions/facts?

 

He had been a Master for the longest amount of time. Also, he was presumably quite powerful, since TPM implies he has the second highest midichlorian count next to Anakin.

 

Most experienced and most powerful in the Force (in term of midis at least)probably makes him the leader, officially or otherwise. I got the impression that it was Yoda and Mace who held the leadership roles.

 

I think Mace and Yoda's roles where unofficial. They were the most respected by the council. At no time where they ever refered to as the ruling members on the council. However they were the ones that everyone looked to for guidance.

 

I agree with Darth Gordon. The true leaders of the Jedi are whoever is on the Council at the time. Yoda and Mace were the most respected Council members but they weren't the offical leaders. Everyone on the Jedi Council is equal, which is why their chairs are arranged in a circle, so there is no beginning nor end.

 

respected member of the council

 

I remember reading on these boards somewhere (maybe the 3SA) when a big deal was being made about Anakin not being granted the title of 'Master.' In that discussion the council was stated as being a cohort of equals without rank -- one could not overule the decision of the majority. However, Yoda was unanimously recognized as the council's sage leader or, more accurately, sheppard. Yoda is given the Grand Master title in many various accounts, while Mace was similarly acknowledged as Yoda's second, or XO in military terms.

 

Yeah, Yoda was probably looked to the most because he was you know, 800+ years old. He had the most experience and probably the greatest knowledge of the force on the council. I don't think he bore any sort of official title that implied he was superior to the other Jedi, but I think they still recognized that he was perhaps the most wise. That doesn't mean that the council necessarily had to agree with his thoughts though, look at Anakin. Yoda opposed the idea of training Anakin as a Jedi but he was apparently over ruled by the rest of the council on the matter.

 

Grand Master, also known as the Supreme Master, was a title used in both the Old and New Jedi Orders.

Formally Grand Master of the Jedi Order, only the highest-ranking Jedi Masters took the title, although how exactly one earned it is unknown. The Grand Master was apparently the "first among equals" of the Jedi High Council, or the later Masters' Council.

By the time of the Conclave of Exis Station, Nomi Sunrider was the acknowledged leader of the entire Jedi Order.

Yoda was the last and only other known Grand Master of the Old Jedi Order, although there may have been one during his time as a knight: his report on the Battle of the Chu'unthor was made to a single, enthroned figure, not a council. Luke Skywalker achieved the title after he rebuilt the Order, though he did not formally assume the title until the Swarm War.

Taken from Wookieepedia. I also looked up a link to the following on Wikipedia.

Primus inter pares (Latin) or First among equals is a phrase which indicates that a person is the most senior of a group of people sharing the same rank or office.

When not used in reference to a specific title, it may indicate that the person so described is technically equal, but looked upon as an authority of special importance by his peers. In some cases it may also be used to indicate that while the person described appears to be an equal, he actually is the group's unofficial or hidden leader.


So in other words, though the Jedi Council was made up of Jedi Masters who had equal say, Yoda was considered the "go to man" when it came to matters of the Force. At 877 years old, by the time of ROTS, Yoda was the oldest and most experienced among the Jedi. Other Jedi would look to him for guidence in matters of the Force, since he's had a long life and would be privy to things that the younger generation aren't. Note in TPM, Yoda responds to Mace and Ki-Adi's asserstions that the return of the Sith would be known to them, by saying that the dark side is hard to see. Meaning that they could come back without their knowing it, though it seems highly unlikely. Yoda is the lone voice of dissent regarding Anakin coming into the Jedi Order based on his years of experience. Palpatine asks Yoda for a definitive answer regarding the possibility of war. Anakin asks Yoda for help about his visions. It is always Yoda in the PT and later in the OT, who warns of the dangers of the dark side. It is Yoda who starts the training for the Younglings and for Luke.

 

Yoda trained Jedi for 800 years prior to the rise of the Sith and the fall of the Jedi Order. Not only was he the oldest Jedi, he was the most experienced, the wisest, and most powerful in the Order.

 

I was re-reading a portion of LOE where Obi-Wan explains to Anakin that when the Jedi Council is truly divided on an issue, they defer to Yoda's wisdom(as stated by Sinister).

 

So he effectively had a casting vote?

 

He always had a casting vote as a Council member, but in this case, they listened to him on which way to vote. His years of experience often proved to be very helpful and insightful.

 

So they were free to vote according to their own opinion as long as it was the same as Yoda's!

 

No, he would offer his insight and those who listened to it and took it to heart, would change their vote based on that. Not everyone agreed with him, as we see with Anakin being voted in. It appeared to be an eleven to one vote in favor of letting the boy be trained. So just because he was the Grand Master and had years of experience, didn't mean that his insight would always be held to. More often than not it was, but there were the exceptions.

 

For all his wisdom, Yoda was little more than a blind man leading the blind... IMO.
At least he got right when he became Qui-Gon's apprentice. Too bad ten thousand Jedi had to eat their lightsabers before he got off his high horse.

 

They made them eat their lightsabers??!!!! ****, that would have been cool to see. They better put it in the Special Edition

 

Or maybe it'll be in the new cartoon!

 

Yeah, that's true. He had a chance to change the direction of the order, but he didn't because he grown too ridgid. But no one saw the Sith coming when they did. Not even Yoda. Sidious played a major role more so than anyone in how the Jedi Order ended up. The only reason Sidious prevailed was because Yoda wasn't there with Mace when the time came to arrest him.

 

And the ROTS novel shows that Palpatine conspired to ensure that Yoda (and Obi-Wan) weren't on Coruscant when the moment of Anakin's turn came.

 

Yoda himself said it best: "Failed, I have."

***

Greatest understatement ever, IMO.

 

I agree. Lucas makes Yoda look like a PUNK in the first 3 movies. It's hugely disappointing too, because he's so awesome in the OT. In the PT, all he does is whine and lose fights. "Clouded", "Hard to See", "Disturbing". I was waiting for one of the other jedi in the movies to say "Dude, are you gonna help us here or just complain all the time?" Yoda could have been quieter in the first 3 movies. Said less, acted when called upon. That's what made him cool in the OT. The Pod Race, Order 66, and Yoda being worthless are the WORST things Lucas did in the PT.

 

I have said it before and I'll say it again...

The PT Jedi hardly resemble what old Ben described them to be when he was recruiting Luke in Star Wars.

 

He was getting kind of senile, I guess.

 

That what happens when you spend most of your free time pounding cocktails in the M.E.Cantina and the rest of it under the hot twin suns.