You have been warned!

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Plo_Koen, Aug 4, 2004.

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  1. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    BTW SHB (hehe, that actually rhymes to me) I've read your bio... you have no business in this thread, you were already excused in the very first paragraph. :p
  2. Darth_Digital Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Yoda;

    "Through the FILMING order, things you will see, other places. The future, the past, old friends long gone."

    Plo_Koen;

    "But tell me why I can't watch them in chrono-"

    Yoda;

    "No! No! There is no why! Hmph! Nothing more will we release on DVD this year. Clear your mind of argument..."

  3. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    [face_laugh]

    Digital: "There's something not right here. I feel cold... death."

    Yoda: "That place, is strong with the dark side of the saga, a domain of false expectations it is... in you must go."

    Digital: "What's in there?"

    Yoda: "Only what you take with you... your memories of the OT, you will not need them."

    Digital: *strap* - *click*

    :p

    Something just occured to me: this is totally out there, but I suspect that the scenes in the mid-sections of AOTC and ESB are not entirely chronological.

    Henceforth, I will refer to the correct viewing order as 'numerical order'.
  4. Darth_Digital Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Digital;

    "It is pointless to resist Plo_Koen."

    George Lucas;

    "Everything that has transpired in this thread has done so according to MY design. Your associates, agreeing with your proposal of linear viewing of the the Star Wars saga have fallen into a trap. It was I that delibretly FILMED the OT first. It is quite safe from your pitiful little prequel following. Oh...I'm...afraid...the cultural contamination will be quite progressive by the time your future offspring arrives...."
  5. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    I just thought of an old saying:

    "Save the best for the last"

    That sums it all up for me. So if you actually like the PT better than the OT...
    (do such people exist?) you are also excused to watch the Saga out of order, on my behalf.
  6. Indianasthedogsname Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 1
    What I don't get is the religious reverance of the films. They're cool movies (I wouldn't be here if they weren't). Lucas was making B-movies. Really big big B-movies. Who cares if the acting is wooden, maybe it adds to that feeling... I don't feel gyped with the prequels although they're overall different (in my opinion the political undertones turn many of the old school fans off). But I think everyone must remember that they are just B-movies meant to tell a simple story (one of temptation and redemption) and be entertaining.

    That said, I II III IV V IV is my preferred order (although watching one film at a time is a good way to view them, sometimes I'm just in that ESB mood or maybe ROTJ)
  7. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    ANH is the film you watch once a year so it doesn't get sucky. ANH, for me anyway, is not a watch-it-a-bunch-of-times film. It's more than that.

    George Lucas;

    "Everything that has transpired in this thread has done so according to MY design. Your associates, agreeing with your proposal of linear viewing of the the Star Wars saga have fallen into a trap. It was I that delibretly FILMED the OT first. It is quite safe from your pitiful little prequel following. Oh...I'm...afraid...the cultural contamination will be quite progressive by the time your future offspring arrives...."


    LMAO
  8. SkyWookiee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2003
    star 4
    I don't remember who in this forum suggested a 4-5-1-2-3-6 order, but I think the idea is nice. We'll have to see EIII to be sure though.
  9. CIDLORD Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 2001
    star 3
    I think it's better if you watch the story from I to VI.

    1) Following another pattern, it would be similar if you were watching a movie starting in the second final part and finishing with the first part. A real nonsense.

    2) Many things from the Classic Trilogy have now a different (and if you like, deeper) meaning with TPM and AOTC. For instance, Sand People reaction after seeing a guy with Jedi's robe, and the always famous line "He has too much of his father in him".

    3) However, anyone of us can do whatever he/she wants. I can understand if it's better for somebody to watch IV-VI and next I-III. But, for me, it makes more sense and gives more drama if you follow the logic sequence.

  10. JohnWesleyDowney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2004
    star 5
    Good grief, Lucas is labeling them 1 through 6 for a reason. Now can anyone think of what that reason might be?

    How many of you would buy a book open it to the middle, read it to the end, and then go back and start with chapter one?

    Duh.
  11. TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2001
    star 10
    Back when I was totally StarWarsStupid, I read the X-Wing novels in that order: 3 1 4 2 [face_plain]
    very weird, but I still love them :p
  12. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    When all 6 episodes are available on DVD, more and more people will watch them in chronological order, until people have forgotten the time that 'Star Wars' was OT/PT, or only a Trilogy, or only a movie, or only a sparkle in Lucas' eye...
    - But the OT will always be different from the PT. No matter how many effects and scenes you change, the OT will always clearly be a product of its time - a time now some 25 years ago. The same with the PT. It's clearly a product of this time.
    The styles are different, the feel is different. Both trilogies can be seen as 2 parts of one big story, but I doubt many people will ever see it as anything else than 2 trilogies.

    Good grief, Lucas is labeling them 1 through 6 for a reason. Now can anyone think of what that reason might be?
    - Well... the events in episodes 1,2, and 3 take place before the events in 4,5, and 6, so labeling them 1 through 6 makes sense.
    Doesn't mean that you can't view 4,5, and 6 as the main story, and 1,2, and 3 as the backstory.

    How many of you would buy a book open it to the middle, read it to the end, and then go back and start with chapter one?
    - With the OT and the PT, it's like 6 books, not 6 chapters of 1 book. The books that were first released are about the main story. The 3 books that were released later are about the events that led to the events in the first 3 books.
    Also if you only watch the OT it makes perfect sense. It's a story from start to finish. Nobody ever complained that they couldn't follow the OT because they were missing the first half of the story.
    Everything you need to know about the backstory (for the OT to make sense) is in there. The PT simply expands on that backstory. So it's not like starting to read a book from the middle to the end at all.
  13. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    Ok here it goes watch the movies how every you want to watch them. Show them to your kids how every you want to watch them. Those that have not seen Star Wars well if they have not seen it by know there is a reason they don't like it so don't worry about them.

    Any ways I will watch them 1-6. After that I will watch them 4,5,1,2,3,6. Then after that I will watch them in any order I want to watch them in. Same with my kids when I have kids. :)
  14. Helmet Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2001
    star 5
    Doesn't mean that you can't view 4,5, and 6 as the main story

    If it was the main story.


  15. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    It's been the main story for 2 decades...


    Don't you think that people will be confused when they see 2 unknown planets and a new character at the end of ROTJ?
    I'm sure plenty of people were confused when they saw some kind of city planet at the end of ROTJ in 1997.
    Of course you can ignore the special editions and stick with the originals.

    But if you think these changes are a problem when seen first, then what about some of the stuff in the PT:

    If a first time viewer watches the PT first, he might be wondering what pointless characters like C-3PO, little Boba Fett, and Chewbacca are doing in those movies. Clearly those characters are only in there because they are popular OT characters.
    Boba Fett is only in AOTC so Lucas had an excuse to use the armor and slave-1. The kid doesn't really do anything. He's just there. C-3PO hasn't done anything so far, and I don't need to see ROTS to know that Chewbacca is only in it for marketing reasons.
    Lucas also assumed that everybody knew who Yoda was. That little green alien is only identified as Yoda near the end of TPM. Before that a new viewer could think that Samuel L. Jackson is the master Yoda that Obi-Wan spoke of at the start of the movie.
    And at the end of AOTC Yoda says 'begun...this...clone...war....haaaaassss'.
    Why? That doesn't make sense. How does he come up with the term clone war? Nobody ever talked about that. Lucas only had him say that to let the fans know that yes, really, the clone wars that were talked about in ANH had finally begun.
  16. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    I *do* think that the OT is the main story, or at least the more important part of the Saga. Coincidently, I also like it better. I also think that it worked fine without the PT.

    Nevertheless, I agree with Lucas that the PT should be watched first, when people watch the entire Saga for the first time.
  17. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    "If a first time viewer watches the PT first, he might be wondering what pointless characters like C-3PO, little Boba Fett, and Chewbacca are doing in those movies. Clearly those characters are only in there because they are popular OT characters."

    Probably, but does that make their appearance actually better? For instance: will first time viewers also be baffled that Darth Vader built C-3PO?

    As for pointless: C-3PO shows Anakin's technical skills, and Boba Fett provides another perspective on the cenral 'father/son' theme... a weak excuse, I know, but they're not pointless.

    "Lucas also assumed that everybody knew who Yoda was. That little green alien is only identified as Yoda near the end of TPM. Before that a new viewer could think that Samuel L. Jackson is the master Yoda that Obi-Wan spoke of at the start of the movie."

    In the OT, you'll never know the name of Tatooine until the end of ESB, and you'll never learn Boba Fett's name until ROTJ... does it really matter?

    "And at the end of AOTC Yoda says 'begun...this...clone...war....haaaaassss'.
    Why?"


    Um... because we just saw a bunch of clones at war, and the war wasn't over yet?

    "Lucas only had him say that to let the fans know that yes, really, the clone wars that were talked about in ANH had finally begun"

    Yes, and for Saga viewers it will work the other way round, they will think: Hey, I've actually seen those wars that old Obi-Wan is talking about.
  18. earlchinna Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2004
    star 2
    BTW i have to say that, as star wars is so present in the popular culture, it's hard to prevent our children from knowing that vader is luke's father before they see the films........so I think 1-6 is also a good order
  19. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    In the OT, you'll never know the name of Tatooine until the end of ESB, and you'll never learn Boba Fett's name until ROTJ... does it really matter?
    - Yoda is more important than some bounty hunter (who was simply called the bounty hunter) or the name of a planet (didn't an imperial officer mention Tatooine in ANH?). It's not terribly important, but it's a bit like not mentioning Han or Chewie's names until the end of ANH. Leia's name I think was never mentioned in ANH, but of course she was the princess, and there was only one princess. In TPM there is more than one Jedi Master.
    Btw, I think Lucas also forgot to mention Qui-gon's name until halfway through the movie, but I could be wrong about that :)

    Um... because we just saw a bunch of clones at war, and the war wasn't over yet?
    - Yes, but he said it as if they already knew there was going to be a war with clones before it had started. At the start of the movie they are simply worried that a war could break out. If he had simply said 'begun, the war has' it would have made more sense. I remember a lot of fans noticed this 'mistake' after the AOTC trailer had hit the net. It's a silly little thing.

    I can't really blame Lucas for expecting everyone to have seen the OT (who hasn't?), and writing the PT with that in mind. It's just a bit weird that he insists that future viewers should watch the PT first. If he wanted that maybe he should have paid a bit more attention to details like that.
  20. anidanami124 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 24, 2002
    star 6
    And at the end of AOTC Yoda says 'begun...this...clone...war....haaaaassss'.
    Why? That doesn't make sense. How does he come up with the term clone war? Nobody ever talked about that.


    Uh? What else are you going to call it? Also he says it like this. Begun this clone war has. Telling the people watching what the name of the war is.


    You know I think this whole thing comes from the fact that people don't want the Vader thing ruined. Well that's a little hard to keep form people. And those you don't know yet. Well ask yourself why they don't know. It could be the fact that they don't like Star Wars. Also you have the fact that all that's left after you hear it is just the shock value of knowing what is coming for Luke.
  21. geordiejedi1982 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2004
    star 1
    Leia's name is mentioned in ANH, several times in fact
  22. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    *TRIVIA*

    didn't an imperial officer mention Tatooine in ANH?

    Nope. Mos Eisley is mentioned by an officer.

    Leia's name I think was never mentioned in ANH

    In the opening crawl, and by Tarkin and C-3PO.

    Btw, I think Lucas also forgot to mention Qui-gon's name until halfway through the movie

    That's true. (same with "Skywalker" in ANH, although that's not comparable)
  23. DarthBorgh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2002
    star 1
    I have placed my vote in on this subject before and I Will do so again here.. my daughter hasn't really seen the movies.. she is going to be four in october. when she first sees the movies, they will be in chronological order.

    When you mention things we lose from viewing the PT first, Vader revealing to Luke, Luke revealing to Leia, Yoda's introduction, Ben's introduction.. umm those are the only real surprises I can think of.. when you mention losing those things, you fail to mention all of the "potential" surprises that you lose in viewing the OT first.. Things like Anakin becoming Darth Vader, Palpatine being evil and ruling the galaxy, Padme dying (I would think this would almost be a huge surprise being she is a main character through three of the six movies), Obi-Wan dying (think of how much more meaningful it would be with him being a main character in 4 of the movies), Luke and Leia not knowing they are related, Luke not knowing Vader is his father but we do, Luke not knowing who Yoda is or how powerful he is, etc.

    You contend that watching the PT first ruins all of the great moments of the OT. I contend that watching the OT first ruins all of the great moments of the saga.
  24. Plo_Koen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    "You know I think this whole thing comes from the fact that people don't want the Vader thing ruined. Well that's a little hard to keep form people."

    Maybe, but I don't wanna use that as an argument. Everyday there are babies born who don't know it yet. (Let's lock some of them up for experimentation. [face_devil])

    Besides the Vader revelation, I think that the main gripe is "plotholes" (and I use quotation marks because they are very subjective to how hard you wanna work with or against them). Yes, there will be some continuity problems, either way you watch the Saga. When you watch the OT first, they will become apparent in the PT. And when you watch the PT first they will become apparent in the OT...

    And that's not fair, because the OT was made first, right?

    Well first of all... continuity problems are as old as the first sequel: Many people were flabbergasted when they heard that 'Star Wars 2' (ESB) was coming. After all, If you interpreted the opening crawl correctly, freedom was restored to the galaxy at the end of ANH... remember? :cool: Then ROTJ came and Obi-Wan had some other things to explain... [face_whistling]

    For the "real problems": I think that the OT can handle them better, and that the audience will be more forgiving towards them in that order.

    Also, in the numerical order there will be less "seemingly plotholes". A simple example:

    For OT-PT viewers it will be confusing that C-3PO knows certain things in the PT that he didn't know in the OT. For Saga viewers this won't be confusing at all.
  25. Darth_Sillyname Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 2000
    star 4
    didn't an imperial officer mention Tatooine in ANH?
    Nope. Mos Eisley is mentioned by an officer.

    - Oh yes.

    Leia's name I think was never mentioned in ANH
    -In the opening crawl, and by Tarkin and C-3PO.

    - Oh yes, the opening crawl. I don't remember Tarking and threepio saying it, but I guess they did.
    I don't know where I got this idea. Is her last name ever mentioned? Maybe it was that. A good excuse to watch ANH again :)

    Uh? What else are you going to call it?
    - the war. It's about what a character in the star wars universe would call it.

    Telling the people watching what the name of the war is.
    - That's the point. Lucas is simply telling the audiance that this is the war that was mentioned in the OT. In the movie, Yoda simply made up the name of that war. It's as if at the start of the first world war someone said: Begun, the first world war has.
    Anyway, it's off topic.

    I guess there are 4 reasons why I will always recommend watching the OT first:

    - I see the OT as the main story, with the PT as the backstory. The PT is more about watching things that were talked or hinted about in the OT. I think the PT makes more sense if you've seen the OT first. To me the PT is EU.

    - The OT is a better introduction to the saga, and the SW universe. Especially ANH, which really stands apart from the rest, and seems a bit out of place if you put it in the middle of a six part story.

    - The OT is set up so that we follow the characters and learn things along the way. Then later our perception of certain things is altered as we learn more. We are not supposed to know everything, even if we've seen the movies a hundred times. So we 'play' along as the story unfolds. Then we watch the PT and find out more about how everything led to the OT.
    When we watch the PT first, we are supposed to know all these things by the time we arrive at the OT. You could wonder why it takes so long for Luke and the others to find out the truth, why everything is dragged out endlessly.

    - The quality of the story and the characters. This is a bit subjective of course.
    The OT has a simple story, and good, straightforward character motivations, and reasons why things happen. I think the PT is weak when it comes to this.
    Things happen mainly because they have to happen. Characters are there, and do their things, because everything has to lead to the OT.
    Why is Anakin becoming bad, why do those kids fall in love and get married, why are there separatists, why does Obi-Wan train Anakin, why are the jedi clueless, what's the point of this or that character? I think that the reasons that are given are weak. The things are the way they are, because it all has to lead to the OT.
    The most interesting thing about the PT is that it leads to the OT. That's even what the marketing campaigns focus on. So I think it works better if you've seen the OT first.
    When I watch the prequels I don't see anything truly great or interesting about the story and characters in it, so if it was the first half of a story I wouldn't be interested in the second part. But that's just me ;)

    Whatever. It's been interesting to see the motivations of the people in this thread, no matter which trilogy they want to watch first :)
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