You know, something that I still don't get regarding Anakin...

After Anakin is tested by the Jedi Counsel, Qui Gon says "He is to be trained then?" Then Mace says "no, he will not be trained." "He is too old." After some back and forth debate Qui Gon puts his hands on Anakin's shoulders and says "I will train him then. I take Anakin as my padawan learner." Then of course Yoda says "an apprentice you already have Qui Gon. Impossilbe to take on another."


What confuses the hell out of me during this scene is that the Jedi had already made up their minds not to train Anakin. Well why then did they suddenly say "Anakin's fate will be decided later."

Um, hello? Didn't you just say that he was not to be trained?!? Why then all of a sudden did the Jedi act as if they hadn't settled on what to do?? Was Qui Gon THAT persuasive or did I totally miss something during that exchange??

 

Well they probably just said that the shut Qui-Gon up for the time being, by giving him a sense of hope. And then once he died and made Obi-Wan promise to train him, they kind of had to bring it up again for a final decision.

 

The council knows that Qui Gon wouldn´t give in in terms of such deals... He´s pretty defiant anyway. So they just said "no" and then, they just hoped he would shut up but he didn´t as always. So they are quite impatient, you´re right... Not very jedi-like...

 

It is still possible for Anakin to have a future at this moment in the film because even if he isn't trained the Jedi send their flunk-outs to different farming or medical jobs where their force abilities, while undeveloped, would be useful and that would be a possible place for Anakin in the future.

 

Well, I got the idea the Jedi weren't really a tight-nit order and that it was really more about the teachings than the rules.

AOTC kind of nuked this idea, so I dunno. Don't really see how QGJ really hoped to pull this coupe off, unless he knew the Council would yield if he pushed it through.

 

What the council were saying was that they weren't going to take Anakin in and train him, because they didn't think he should be trained. Qui Gon said that in that case, he'd train him himself. (Just as soon as Obi Wan "graduates" and he can take on a new apprentice.) Basically, bringing him in through the back door.

It's kind of like if a university professor said that he will teach a student who the university hadn't accepted- he wouldn't be able to force the university to enrol him, but he would still be perfectly able to pass on his teachings.

At the end of the film, Obi Wan threatens pretty much exactly the same thing. "I will train him- without the council's permission if I must."

 

^

That blew my crap out of the water, but what I said does have some relevance.

 

Just to add my thoughts - isn't this really based on what is shown in a lot of martial-arts films and in old shows like Kung Fu? Where the Master "tests" the prospective student by continually denying the teaching with all manner of put-offs and "delaying" tactics. "You're not old enough"..."You're too old"..."I'm not taking new students"..."I don't want a student"...etc until the prospective pupil shows fortitude and perserverence in willing to sacrifice to attain learning.

Much like Yoda not wanting to teach Luke - he almost seemed to be grasping for a reason *not* to teach him (and he was probably half afraid of what would happen if Luke attained a Jedi Master state). Then, he threw a fit when Luke wanted to give up his training to help his friends - when Yoda would rather he sacrifice those personal issues in his pursuit of the greater ideal, which is The Force.

So, the council is just brushing QGJ off, telling him to basically quit focusing on the boy and start looking at "The Big Picture." I'm sure they would, however reluctantly and begrudgingly, have allowed to train him once he had "proven" himself in whatever arbitrary manner they chose. Also, the Council by this time seems pretty stodgy and full of Jedi who "don't rock the boat" and are very status-quo minded. They don't want to waste training on every kid a Jedi has a "feeling" about. They'd probably have ended up researching the prophecy and conducting further, more in-depth tests on Anakin before they made any decision - very beaureaucratic.

(Edited because I type faster than I can spell)

 

Very well put, I agree.
I think it was a definite 'brush-off' from the Council when Qui-Gon started to raise objections.

 

There's also the matter of Obi-Wan... they can't keep in a Padawan forever, and it's clear that as soon as he's Knighted and Qui-Gon is free to take on another apprentice, Anakin will be his choice. Even then, Anakin and Obi-Wan's fates were intertwined.