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You know, The Phantom Menace wasn't all that great...

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Frank Danger, May 15, 2003.

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  1. Frank Danger

    Frank Danger Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Next Monday marks the four year anniversary of the release of Star Wars Episode One. After all this time to think about the movie and let it sink in, I'm not sure if it was that good.


    I mean, yeah, it was Star Wars and all, but something just didn't feel right. I mean, midichlorians? I have to say, I kind of liked Obi-Wan's explanation of the Force as a mystical energy field surrounding all living things. This whole scientific explanation thing falls sort of flat in my book. And why didn't Yoda train Kenobi? I thought that's what Obi-Wan explained to Luke. I mean, I had never even heard of this Qui-Gon guy. I really don't think Anakin should have built C-3PO, and in fact, I'm not sure if Threepio and Artoo should have been in the movie at all. And did you guys think Jake Lloyd was all that good of actor? There are times when I don't think he is. I think Natalie Portman had some rough spots, too. For some reason, Yoda didn't sound right to me, either. It's like his dialogue was over-inverted or inverted differently than it was in Episodes V and VI, or something. The dialogue overall, not just Yoda's, was kind of bad, too. And you know what, I hate to admit it, but than darn Jar Jar Binks sort of gets to me after while. Is it just me, or is he a little bit irritating?


    Anyway, these are just a couple of random thoughts. What do you all think? Was TPM really that great?
     
  2. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Was TPM really that great?

    IMO, yes it was.
     
  3. DarthSil

    DarthSil Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 19, 2003
    You know, The Phantom Menace was great. ;)
     
  4. flyingseal

    flyingseal Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2002
    Great, but not perfect...
     
  5. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    I thought it was just fine, thank you.


    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  6. Gay-LenKenobi

    Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2000
    I thought it was wonderful. I enjoyed Jake and Jar Jar, R2 was just as endearing as ever, and Yoda was talking just as strangely as he did in the OT (I <3 Frank Oz).

    I watch the movie frequently and it's great to be able to enjoy it with my nieces and nephew. :D
     
  7. Frank Danger

    Frank Danger Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 1999
    I know this is more an AotC thing, but did you really like the CG Yoda? Didn't he look, I don't know, less real than the puppet Yoda?


    I guess the idea of reducing Frank Oz to no more than a vocal contributor kind of goes against the grain.
     
  8. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2001
    I know this is more an AotC thing, but did you really like the CG Yoda? Didn't he look, I don't know, less real than the puppet Yoda?

    I guess the idea of reducing Frank Oz to no more than a vocal contributor kind of goes against the grain.


    You make it sound like Oz didn't have a choice in the situation. If you watch the AOTC DVD, you see that GL wanted to get Oz's approval of digital Yoda before they actually did it.

    Besides that, without digital Yoda in AOTC, we wouldn't great the great scenes we had, like the duel, the Yoda/Dooku "wizard's" fight, Yoda's suspicious look of Palpatine at the beginning, Yoda's sorrow look at the end of the movie. And most importaintly, we wouldn't be able to see Yoda in as many scenes as we did because of the constraints of a puppet, so we probally wouldn't be able to see any scenes of Yoda in Palpatine's office other than him sitting on a chair.

    You may argue that Yoda should only have been digital in the parts that were needed, but let's face it, digital technology has not been perfected yet. It wouldn't have been believable at all for Yoda to be a puppet in some scenes and digital in others.

    The bottom line: Digital Yoda was only the next logical step. They couldn't have done AOTC and feature Yoda as much as they did, with as much emotion without digital effects.

    I think digital Yoda looks better than the puppet in TESB.
     
  9. senseless_apprentice

    senseless_apprentice Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2002
    My only complaints are as follows.

    1. Jar Jar
    2. Gungan-Droid Battle

    The gungan-droid battle looked alright back in 99. But now? It just looks like a computer game cut scene. I find my self fast forwarding through the part because it is very very boring.

    Why is it boring? Because I dunno about you but I really don't give a rip about CGI Gungans and Droids fighting each other.

    and the lack of dead gungans on the ground kinda sucked too.

    then again seeing Teddy bears take down the Emporers special forces aint that great either.... but that belongs in another thread.
     
  10. Frank Danger

    Frank Danger Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Besides that, without digital Yoda in AOTC, we wouldn't great the great scenes we had, like the duel, the Yoda/Dooku "wizard's" fight, Yoda's suspicious look of Palpatine at the beginning, Yoda's sorrow look at the end of the movie. And most importantly, we wouldn't be able to see Yoda in as many scenes as we did because of the constraints of a puppet, so we probably wouldn't be able to see any scenes of Yoda in Palpatine's office other than him sitting on a chair.

    I happen to be one of those weirdos that didn't like the Yoda/Dooku fight. In my eye, the Yoda kung-fu stance brought to us by CG is the lowest point in the entire Star Wars franchise. I would have liked to see the Master transcend, in some way, the need to do battle with a sword. Humbly speaking, seeing Yoda jump around like Sonic seemed a little goofy.

    As far as the facial expressions go, I think Oz's work in ESB and Jedi was sensational in bringing emotional movement to the aged Jedi's face, far more realistic, in my opinion, than the CG animations.


    I agree with Senseless about the Gungan Battle. The backdrop may have been war, but Jar Jar was always in the foreground stumbling around like Jim Carrey, accidentally killing battle droids. I am by no means an Ewok defender, but at least the Endor battle brings out the "War is Hell" theme. When the two Ewoks get blasted and only one of them stands up, man, I get misty every time.
     
  11. Gay-LenKenobi

    Gay-LenKenobi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2000
    Last time I checked, there was a thread already for general bashing.

    Unless this thread narrows down to a specific focus, then it's just going to turn into a gusher/basher argument.
     
  12. -_-_-_-_-_-

    -_-_-_-_-_- Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2002
    The film served its purpose, an introduction to the six part saga.

    It wasn't meant to be the epic, apitamy of all Star Wars type film as most expected it to be.
     
  13. spring_warm

    spring_warm Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 12, 2003
    Best kids movie ever

    not that it being a kids movie was bad, im glad it was kiddish, gives contrast to ep3
     
  14. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    and the lack of dead gungans on the ground kinda sucked too.

    There's dead Gungans on the ground, so I guess the movie sucks less for you now. :)

    There's no "Corpsey the Dead Ewok" scene per se, but if you look in the wider shots, there's Gungans lying around. They ain't sleeping, bucko. :p

    Grrrr... I'm having trouble finding a pic...



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  15. mjerome3

    mjerome3 Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 11, 2000
    I haven't heard anyone bash The Phantom Menace in a long, long time.

    The Phantom Menace was awesome. It was more of a child's movie, where Episode II moved into a more grown up story line. It's too bad that people still haven't realized that The Phantom Menace was the start of the saga, and it was geared around the Palpatine/Sidious alter ego to set up the events that take place in Episode II and Episode III. People need to learn to read between the lines and just appreciate the movie.
     
  16. Durwood

    Durwood Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    May 18, 2002
    I thought it was great myself. Sorry you didn't enjoy it.
     
  17. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    TPM Yoda was REALLY bad. The sculpt was all wrong, and the puppetry wasn't very good either, I guess Frank Oz had lost some of the skills.

    I once watched the Gungan battle in slow-mo on DVD to see if I could spot any Gungans getting shot, the best I could tell was one Gungan way in the background falling over, I don't know if he was shot or just slipped on some poo-doo.
    I mean who taught those Battle droids to shoot - Greedo?

    g
     
  18. Force_Prophet

    Force_Prophet Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Great, Good, Bad, Sickening....

    It just dosn't matter, it is still Star Wars and that is all I care about.
     
  19. Lurking_Around

    Lurking_Around Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    *gasp* It wasn't all that great? B-but...oh wait, yeah it wasn't all that great!

    [face_laugh]
     
  20. Blacklite

    Blacklite Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Don't we already have a thread about this?
    Why do we need two? :(
     
  21. mojodaddy

    mojodaddy Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Without regard as to whether or not it was good or bad, I always felt like it didn't live up to it's potential. Heck, I can't be as objective as I'd like to be. It was good, but it could have been great. I watch it all the time, appreciating those elements of greatness, but at the same time thinking, "this had the makings of an amazing movie, but it's not an amazing movie."
     
  22. Cometgreen

    Cometgreen Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2002
    "You make it sound like Oz didn't have a choice in the situation. If you watch the AOTC DVD, you see that GL wanted to get Oz's approval of digital Yoda before they actually did it."

    Actually, if you watch TPM's documentaries, Frank is the one who suggested that they do it CG, after seeing shots of Jar Jar. I think he said "You don't even need me anymore." Frank Oz was also quite committed to the CG Yoda. He made sure the ILM guys got it right.

    Now, onto the topic. I think TPM was a great film, like the rest of the SW films. It might be my least favorite, but it's still good. I think it did especially well considering its primary focus was to set up the Star Wars universe.

    Cometgreen
     
  23. Frank Danger

    Frank Danger Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Last time I checked, there was a thread already for general bashing.

    Unless this thread narrows down to a specific focus, then it's just going to turn into a gusher/basher argument.


    Yes, Ms. Gay-Len, you are correct. Unfortunately, though, the current basher thread happens to be a couple of hundred pages long. I have always found it morally incomprehensible to post in a thread that I haven't read the entirety of, and I'm sure the immensity of the Sanctuary has scared off others as well. I don't stop by the JCF very often, but once in awhile I feel like swinging by, bashing for a little while, and then heading off on my merry way, and I really have no desire of reading the entire contents of the Sanctuary. And even if I did, they currently seem to be engaged in a rather heated debate over the validity of the Special Editions. As passionate as I am about that issue, today I just felt like some good old fashion TPM bashin'.

    Furthermore, I have found that a thread seldom stays true to its original focus. In fact, the best discussions are ones that stem from something completely different than what they end up as. For instance, this thread started out very general, but for awhile, we had a very fascinating examination of CG Yoda versus puppet Yoda. If we end up wandering off this course of discussion, I trust we'll find something else very thought-provoking to explore. I?d like to think there?s room for more than one basher/gusher thread on this forum.

    If the generality of this thread still makes you nervous, though, consider this as an overall theme. Assuming this is your first username and you have in fact only been with us since September 2000 (I apologize if you have been here longer), then you missed out on the glory days of the Basher/Gusher war. I myself caught only the tail end, and let me tell you, it was one bloody mess. It only took about a half a page for an intellectual discussion to turn into an all out flame war. But, that was four years ago. This thread can be seen as a case study in our ability as Star Wars fans to once and for all be able to discuss our opinions about the prequels without giving in to the Dark Side. So far, I think it has gone very well. I certainly haven't been offended, and I certainly hope I have offended no one. This is not my first experiment of the sort, but it is already the longest running. I hope that is enough focus to appease your worries.



    Edit: Sorry, my utmost apologies, Gay-LenKenobi, I am a product of this patriarchal American society.
     
  24. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Yes, Mr. Gay-Len, you are correct.

    It's Ms. ;) ... last I heard.

    Dammit. Now I've got Hugo Weaving's voice in my head. "MIIIISTER AN-der-son!... MISTER Gay-Len!"

    You ruined my life, Frank.

    EDIT: Okay, just my evening. It should be out of my head back then. The real culprit for ruining my life is, of course, television star Erik Estrada.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  25. Frank Danger

    Frank Danger Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 1999
    Thanks for the correction, AdamBertocci.

    Now I owe you one...



    PS. Sorry about ruining your life.
     
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