You know, The Phantom Menace wasn't all that great...

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Frank Danger, May 15, 2003.

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  1. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    I would love to have been here for that war back in '99.
  2. senseless_apprentice Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 2
    There's dead Gungans on the ground, so I guess the movie sucks less for you now.

    I know that there was a very small amount of dead Gungans on the ground, and thats the problem! (how could I miss a dead gungan?)

    Its a war, and since the Gungans did lose I would expect some more bodies! But I guess that'd make all you Jar Jar lovers cry! boohoo! j/k :)


  3. Jedi_Learner Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2002
    star 5
    "And you know what, I hate to admit it, but than darn Jar Jar Binks sort of gets to me after while. Is it just me, or is he a little bit irritating?"

    I don't find him irritating. This gungan is my favourite character, and I'm coming up to the age of seventeen in one week. I liked Episode I and so I believe it is great.
  4. Qui-Gon Generic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 1999
    star 3
    Hiya, Frank! :D I am unable to visit ezboardia from w#rk, so I admit I've been lurking around here lately as well. psssst.....don't tell anyone ;)

    Sure brings back memories, doesn't it?



  5. Qui-Gon Generic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 1999
    star 3
    Ok, I know I've stated my opinion numerous times in countless threads in the history of this forum, but I'll be brief on my own feelings of TPM. In short:

    A good effort, but its numerous flaws are just too difficult to ignore.



    Did I enjoy TPM? Sure. I'll admit that I enjoyed seeing it. I was entertained. Mostly. Despite the fact that I kept getting pulled out of the film by errors that caused my 'suspension of reality' circuit to overload.

    Yes, but did I enjoy it as much as the OT? About the same as ROTJ, but not half as much as I enjoyed ANH or TESB.


    Was it a good film? Definately. Especially when compared to most other summer blockbusters.

    Was it a good Star Wars film? I'd rate it even with ROTJ...but not as good as AOTC, and far below the benchmark films of ANH and TESB.
  6. sith99 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 1999
    star 3
    It's got alot of flaws.
    I still like it though.
  7. yodaschum Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2002
    star 4
    No it wasn't. Had the Original movies not existed, and The Phantom Menace really WAS Episode I of the series, directed by a new guy who hadnt made films before, I don't think we'd all be complaining as much, as we'd enjoy it for what it is and not what we think it ought to be. It isn't the first film of a new series though, and as a result it has to live up to the standards of 3 of the greatest movies of all time, and on those terms, it looks like the poor cousin of Star Wars; TPM just does not have the magic feel, and limitless joyfullness of the previous films.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, and the fact that Lucas and Lucasfilm made all these huge boasts about how great it was all going to be in terms of story and special effects, all the way leading up to the film didnt help either. Lucasfilm really hyped up TPM all the way up to its release (especially McCallum), and yet after the release and the resulting disapointment, decided to tell everyone it was because it was the MEDIA's hype, not their own, that had caused everyones expectations to sky-rocket, which shows what a bunch of hypocrites they can be at times.
  8. Qui-Gon Generic Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 1999
    star 3
    Let me temper my comments I made above. They're my own opinion, and if your opinion differs from mine...well, that's ok. :)


    TPM is a fine movie, and it stands on its own against nearly everything else out there. However, when I compare it to the other 4 Star Wars films, its luster pales a bit.

    I guess I hold Star Wars up to a higher standard than most other films.

  9. 800-pound_ewok Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 2
    TPM was great! then again.. what difference does my opinion make?

    cheers!
  10. FuzzyRatt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 3
    I fill that TPM was a great movie but, only an okay Star Wars film. ANH is the standard that must be used to judge all SW films ( if for no other reason than it is the first). The characters in ANH are now legends and the crowds in 1977 (I was a member) know it right then. Some of the new/redone characters of TPM will be legends but, to much screen time was lost on underdeveloped ones.
    The great parts of TPM are as follows:
    1:The second best duel in all 5 movies (sorry but, nothing can best TESB's duel).
    2:Queen Amidala: So far the only new character that can stand up to the greats(Luke, Han, And Leia).
    3:The Viceroy: He is just a great villian and had the only good line in AOTC ("She can't to that.......SHOT HER!").
    4:The Sound Track: 'nuff said.
    5:The Pod Race: (When we finally get to it) one of the greatest events in all of SW.

    That is just a few reasons why TPM is a great movie and a good SW film.
  11. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    I fill that TPM was a great movie but, only an okay Star Wars film.

    A really great movie, or a really great sci-fi movie? TPM did have lots of cool effects, interesting aliens and good sci-fi action segments, but what about the pacing, editing, story-telling, use of humor, actors performance? These are important things to make a movie a great overall movie, do you feel TPM delivered these, too?
  12. MikeSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    I loved it... Saber fights, Podraces and the Gungan Droid battle was all great and still is. The fact that a lot fans were annoyed or upset about the movie, made it great too :p
  13. spring_warm Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2003
    star 2
    the pacing, editing, story-telling, use of humor, actors performance?



    Acting is irrelvant to starwars, im not saying "oh starwars is beyond acting!" i mean that to me and to lots of other people the acting doesnt matter. If your watching the actors "acting" your missing out on what star wars is, a story told through imagary. not through dialogue or acting.

    Pacing was average IMO, as was editing.

    humor was child oriented

    Tpm is a kids movie that older people can enjoy, isnt it?

  14. FuzzyRatt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2003
    star 3
    TPM has cool effects, interesting aliens, and great (not just good) sci-fi action. This is all true.
    On the points of pacing: TPM (or AOTC) have not matched the first three but, are still better than must new sci-fi movies(MIB2, Star Trek:Nemisis, or Wing Commander).
    Editing: I have no defence for the point. I have seen worse but, that does not make this editing job good.
    Story-telling: If you do not try to make it fit with the believe back ground story of the OSW films and look at it by itself. I fill it is a good story.
    Use of Humor:Moe, Larry, and Curry.
    Actors Performance: Well I need help on that one.
  15. Frank Danger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 1999
    star 1
    Good to see you, Generic. I'm glad you made it over. You're right, this is quite a trip down memory lane.

    To be perfectly honest with you, I'm surprised to find so many bashers around. The last couple times I've stopped by to lurk, this place was infested with gushers; the nasty species of gushers, in fact, that didn't like other people expressing their opinions. I'm blown away by the relative civility of this thread...
  16. Frank Danger Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 1999
    star 1
    Tpm is a kids movie that older people can enjoy, isnt it?

    That's exactly correct. Episode One is a children's movie that some older individuals can watch and enjoy.

    Contrastingly, the Original Trilogy is a series of grown-up films that can be enjoyed by kids. That's the beauty of the originals. I loved them when I was little, and as I grew up, my appreciation for these movies grew with me. I appreciated different aspects of the films. Somewhere along the line my favorite switched from Jedi to Empire. I could enjoy the cinematic brilliance, the revolutionary filmmaking, and the "really really really cool sword fights" all at once. Unfortunately, the kids who fell in love with TPM at age seven or eight are going to be very disheartened when they watch the movie in years to come. Lucas didn't allow room for their appreciation to grow. As much as we try to stretch it, as much time as we spend searching for adult relevance in the film, TPM only works on a single level.



    EDIT: In my humble opinion;)
  17. Cometgreen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 4
    *begins to raise voice*

    *sees "EDIT: In my humble opinion;)"*

    OK, then I'll spare you. ;)

    IMO, I think that TPM was like all of the other films. It's just not what a lot of people expected. I think some people wanted it to be more like the OT, but TPM is supposed to heavily contrast with the OT. I also don't think it's a kid's movie. It's lighthearted, yes, but not a kid's movie.

    Cometgreen
  18. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Excellent points, Frank; yes. TPM works on only one level, as a children's movie. If we can't find any adult notions to hold our interest, imagine when those children grow up. They're going to look for the transcending elements that were in the Classic Trilogy in this movie, and they're not going to find any. All they're going to find are empty gimmicks and shallowness. None of the substance and depth that came in the subsequent films in the CT, even ANH had a significant level of depth; and it was the "most kiddie" of the trilogy.
  19. Almighty_Sith_Droid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Every time I watch TPM, I pick up on more, and it gets better.

    I started out thinking it was "pretty good". At this point though, I'm up to "Brilliant".
  20. Ekenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I disagree. I love this movie! It was great!
  21. Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2001
    star 6
    TPM has cool effects, interesting aliens, and great (not just good) sci-fi action.

    As a whole I stick with good action, but not great, as an overall assignment. The opening segment, duel and pod race were awesome, but the Gungan battle (though well animated) was a pit cartoonish, the hallway battle is, well *yawn*, and the space battle looked cool but lacked suspense. I guess what I'm trying to say is that the action isn't considantly great, like it is in, say, Raiders of the Lost Ark.


    On the points of pacing: TPM (or AOTC) have not matched the first three but, are still better than must new sci-fi movies(MIB2, Star Trek:Nemisis, or Wing Commander).

    Well, in all fairness, you are comparing it to Nemisis and MIB2 ;). I really felt the pacing of TPM was it's biggest (cinematic) problem. The samwhich effect (putting high intense action at the beginning and end, while having almost none in the middle hour), really kills the pacing of TPM.


    Story-telling: If you do not try to make it fit with the believe back ground story of the OSW films and look at it by itself.

    The story of TPM is quite interesting, indeed, but I was referring to story telling, not the actual plot. Do you feel the story was told well?


    Use of Humor:Moe, Larry, and Curry.

    Exactly.
  22. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    For me it was great, it was a surprise, it was amazing.

    Thats 3 things to describe a film which really brought me into the Star Wars world.

    It is a good starting point. It introduces us to the main characters of the series, sets up alot of the issues which will come to pass over the next 2 movies and gives us some great action in the last 30 minutes.

    And supposedly for a kiddie movie, for someone who was 16 at the time, I was completely hooked.

    BTW I do find it completely hysterical how some on this site (the oldbies and newbies) still can't get over and actually understand the Midichlorians and their role!
    There is all this rubbish about the Midis giving a scientific "explanation" to the Force, and as someone who didn't pay that much attention in 97 to the SE's, I kinda realised on my first viewing that they were not the explaining the Force but explaining why only certain beings become Jedi Knights, and how they relate to the relationship between the Force and a being.

    Anyway TPM does the business, and gives us a whole new angle to look at in the overall Star Wars picture.
  23. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    For me it was great, it was a surprise, it was amazing.

    Thats 3 things to describe a film which really brought me into the Star Wars world.

    It is a good starting point. It introduces us to the main characters of the series, sets up alot of the issues which will come to pass over the next 2 movies and gives us some great action in the last 30 minutes.


    Not so, it introduces us to the main characters, and then proceeds to put some on the shelf (Obi-wan) while others remain in a state that they never really grow from. Thus, in Episode II, said characters had to be reintroduced due to the change in their personalities and because so much time was spent on a character that dies and is never referred to again. Episode I takes the story in a direction that is totally off from the rest of the Saga, and Lucas had to spend half of the second chapter undoing what he had done in the first. Rather than the story growing, it has to backtrack and start over.

    And supposedly for a kiddie movie, for someone who was 16 at the time, I was completely hooked.


    My sister was eight, and she thought it was "dumb." I was more hooked on it than she was, and I spent about three years convincing her it was a good Star Wars movie. And this was a little girl that had her first taste of Star Wars with the SE release of the Classic Trilogy in theaters two years before. She fell in love with those movies instantly because she wasn't being talked down to like an idiot; Star Wars was an escape from mindless fart jokes and empty gimmicks. She saw that in the Phantom Menace by way of Jar Jar and his antics.

    BTW I do find it completely hysterical how some on this site (the oldbies and newbies) still can't get over and actually understand the Midichlorians and their role!
    There is all this rubbish about the Midis giving a scientific "explanation" to the Force, and as someone who didn't pay that much attention in 97 to the SE's, I kinda realised on my first viewing that they were not the explaining the Force but explaining why only certain beings become Jedi Knights, and how they relate to the relationship between the Force and a being.


    Ahh, but what it does is kill the mysticism behind the Force, where it is something that is beyond the technological world the characters live in. It is something so large, so grand, that they cannot comprehend it. It is more powerful than any Death Star, it cannot be seen, it can only be felt. That was the mystic to the Jedi. We wondered why the Jedi could do what they could. It was an answer we did not need.

    And in the Phantom Menace, the Force is reduced to a more tangible field; where the once immeasurable is now measurable. Where the power of the Force is achieved through discipline and philosophy, but rather by being lucky enough to have been born with blood rich with bacteria. It's not a connection between man and Force, but rather through a connection between man and protozoa.

    Anyway TPM does the business, and gives us a whole new angle to look at in the overall Star Wars picture.


    Why is a "new angle" needed? Why fix what isn't broken?
  24. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
  25. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    Because the story is about Anakin. Not the Rebellion against the Empire, not Luke overcoming his fears, the overall picture is the struggle between good and evil, Anakin and Palpatine (but more importantly, Anakin and Vader).


    With the OT you only get half the story. Sure it's a good story in its own right, but it's only a small part of the larger picture.
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