You know, The Phantom Menace wasn't all that great...

Discussion in 'The Phantom Menace' started by Frank Danger, May 15, 2003.

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  1. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    I'd like to think that people would refrain from taking a post which is just OPINION and arguing against it. I couldn't give a damn what your thoughts are on my post, because you are just shooting opinion back at me. Jeez now thats dumb.


    Point-Counterpoint, that is the spirit of debate. I can respect one's opinions, the ones that agree with mine, and ones that don't agree with mine. But I have the right to disagree and offer my own opinions, which in turn causes the other to rebute with their own. There is an exchange and you gain insight (hopefully) on what another thinks. That is called debate.

    I know, it's dumb. Isn't it?

    I was more hooked on it than she was, and I spent about three years convincing her it was a good Star Wars movie.

    That is why you fail. You shouldn't try to convince others that TPM is a good movie, it shouldnt be about that. If people don't like it fine, they have their reasons and that should be accepted. As long as you like the film and can enjoy it with each viewing it shouldnt matter what anyone else thinks/


    Keyword: "was." I was doing that for about three years, and she was never fully convinced; I went and watched AOTC and tried to convince her and most of all, myself, that it was good. I was at a point where I didn't even believe what I was saying myself. I was defending these movies only because they were Star Wars movies, and not very good ones at that. My eyes really were opened with Fellowship of the Ring, and I finally changed my views with Two Towers.

    It's not that I hate Star Wars, but I refuse to deny the amazing flaws in the films that were made needlessly as a result of poor judgement and over-confidence. That is why Lucas fails.
  2. BobaFrank Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 17, 2001
    star 5
    Loco for Lucas,

    You and I may be closer to our thoughts on the PT than you know. I felt and thought and tried to convince people and myself to like TPM.

    I really do like it. It's not my favorite but I like it much better than AOTC.

    I just have problems with negative TPM threads that are allowed to remain open, but if its a negative AOTC thread they are closed on the basis of REDUNDANCY. Its pure hypocrisy and shouldn't be allowed to continue.
  3. JKBurtola Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 4, 2003
    star 4
    Point-Counterpoint, that is the spirit of debate. I can respect one's opinions, the ones that agree with mine, and ones that don't agree with mine. But I have the right to disagree and offer my own opinions, which in turn causes the other to rebute with their own. There is an exchange and you gain insight (hopefully) on what another thinks. That is called debate.

    This is just it, you cannot debate a persons opinion.
    Ok so you disagree with my opinion, there is no point replying to my comments because there is no room to debate where my opinion is concerned.
    My the same as I would not debate your opinion. Notice I stayed away from attacking anyone's negative opinion and just put my own.

    Keyword: "was." I was doing that for about three years, and she was never fully convinced; I went and watched AOTC and tried to convince her and most of all, myself, that it was good. I was at a point where I didn't even believe what I was saying myself. I was defending these movies only because they were Star Wars movies, and not very good ones at that. My eyes really were opened with Fellowship of the Ring, and I finally changed my views with Two Towers.

    But you still tried to. Doesn't matter if you used the word "was". You still blatantly ignored your sisters opinion and tried to instill in her your own. Which is incredibly arrogant and wrong. You don't respect a persons opinion if you do that, and I can see you don't really respect mine.

    It's not that I hate Star Wars, but I refuse to deny the amazing flaws in the films that were made needlessly as a result of poor judgement and over-confidence. That is why Lucas fails.

    Lucas hasn't failed. Financially I'd call what he has done a huge success.
    He only fails in your eyes because you don't like what he has done. Its not a fact he has failed at all.
    And I don't deny there are flaws in Star Wars, but do i give a damn? Hell no because I don't let them ruin my enjoyment and take me out of the story.
  4. stewart-18 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2003
    star 1
    "Lucas hasn't failed. Financially I'd call what he has done a huge success." JKbartola


    Of course he did not fail as a business man, but he did fail at his attempts with the PT to be a good storyteller/writer/director.

    But you can't separate the two it looks like.

    Too bad.


    The fact that Lucas is a successful business man is the reason the PT fails now.

    -He is a business man only now. Not a film maker. But of course he can easily make himself look like a film maker to you by just throwing himself behind a camera, and barking orders to the people around him that just follow his will, every idea, even the bad ones without question cause he is their meal ticket.

    You see people, he was a different man in the 70's. He was a hungry man back then. So he tried harder to make sure his story was right by even hiring ghost writers to flesh out his ideas.

    He had everything to lose back then. Personally, and professionally. Everything was on the line.

    Now it is the opposite because he has too much of everything so he does not have to push himself at all cause he knows there are enough people out there (Lucasites/praisers) that will do, take and buy anything he throws out just for the single fact that he is rich.

    that's the reason!

    Because he is rich, and for some dumb reason most people on this planet think rich people are above them in all aspects of life. That's sad but true.

    That's why he has no respect for his fans. (Just like most rich people don't have much respect for peole that are not rich) and why should he, in terms of his prequels? He has nothing to lose. Thanks to the Lucasites. He knows they will always defend him, and fill his pockets. No matter what he throws on the screen.


    Unlike you people I don't blindly heap praise just because of a silly "SW" lable.



    Peace
  5. Mortimer_Nerdly Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2002
    star 5
    You know, The Phantom Menace wasn't all that great...

    WTF?! I thought Episode I was the greatest thing I'd ever seen when it came out. I'm not going to touch the Jar Jar issue, since he didn't bother me all that much. The duel between Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Darth Maul was cool, and the music awesome! I don't know where you got the idea that Episode I was bad.

    Mortimer_Nerdly! :cool:
  6. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    This is just it, you cannot debate a persons opinion.


    No, but it's fun. :p

    Ok so you disagree with my opinion, there is no point replying to my comments because there is no room to debate where my opinion is concerned. My the same as I would not debate your opinion. Notice I stayed away from attacking anyone's negative opinion and just put my own.


    That would be a perfect world, sir. But this isn't a perfect world. :p

    But you still tried to. Doesn't matter if you used the word "was". You still blatantly ignored your sisters opinion and tried to instill in her your own.


    Yes, I know. That's why I don't any more.

    Which is incredibly arrogant and wrong. You don't respect a persons opinion if you do that, and I can see you don't really respect mine.


    Thanks for stating the obvious. I learned that about six months ago. And I do respect yours, that is why I challenge it. If I didn't respect it, I wouldn't even bother putting any extra thought into it.

    Lucas hasn't failed. Financially I'd call what he has done a huge success. He only fails in your eyes because you don't like what he has done. Its not a fact he has failed at all. And I don't deny there are flaws in Star Wars, but do i give a damn? Hell no because I don't let them ruin my enjoyment and take me out of the story.


    Financially speaking, it's a big success. Other than that, I would say he definately has failed. In his venture in "expanding" the Star Wars universe, he created many rifts and divisions in the fanbase that didn't exist before. He's fractured us in so many levels, and none of it was necessary. Why? Because of some of the decisions he made that many feel were needless and unnecessary.
  7. Cometgreen Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 4
    "Financially speaking, it's a big success. Other than that, I would say he definately has failed. In his venture in "expanding" the Star Wars universe, he created many rifts and divisions in the fanbase that didn't exist before. He's fractured us in so many levels, and none of it was necessary. Why? Because of some of the decisions he made that many feel were needless and unnecessary."

    And whose fault is that, Lucas' or the fans'?

    Cometgreen
  8. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    The fans are reacting to what is on the screen. Causality, cause and effect.

    Why is George Lucas free from consequence for some, in retrospect, "stupid" decisions? Because he's George Lucas? It's the fan's fault the walking racial joke wasn't embraced? Is it the fan's fault that for twenty years we were led to assume it was Obi-wan that discovered Anakin's power and took it on his own to train him, only to have a complete 180 pulled and have a character that is never mentioned again tossed in for no apparent reason? How is it the fan's fault? We didn't write these things, we just watch them.
  9. Cometgreen Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 4
    You watched the movies, read the books, played the games, etc. All you can assume from the movies is that Obiwan was Anakin's master. I never even thought about who discovered Anakin, mainly because I never knew how jedi were discovered. In the end, Obiwan still becomes Anakin's master, and that's what's important, imo.

    Cometgreen
  10. Loco_for_Lucas Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2002
    star 5
    Ahh yes, the ever important "From A Certain Point of View" argument. :p

    We could have assumed many things, that Obi-wan and Anakin were lifelong friends and one day he realized Anakin could use the Force; Obi-wan could have been a General and Anakin a pilot for the Republic and he discovered Anakin's power; Obi-wan could have been in an adventure and stumbled across Anakin, who helped him along the way, and along that way, he discovered the potential in the Force. What I'm getting at, is we were led to believe there was a level of intimacy between the two characters, which was shattered with the unnecessary introduction of a certain Jedi Master.
  11. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    I'm not sure where you got that impression from. During their duel in ANH, I didn't see much evidence of some magnificent friendship in their past. They just seemed like two guys who were pretty close, would have risked their life for the other, but not two best friends, as you think they should have been.


    And then all Obi-Wan ever says afterwards in regards to Vader is that he needs to be destroyed. It always seemed like he was closer friends with Yoda, even before Anakin fell to the dark side.


    Maybe that's just me, though.
  12. Cometgreen Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 4
    AOTC showed their intimacy. Just because Anakin was discovered by Qui-gon doesn't mean that he and Obiwan aren't friends. "You're the closest thing I have to a father." Plus, once the inevitable turning of Anakin comes, and he betrays Obiwan, there's some sense to it, as Obiwan wasn't very interested in Anakin until Qui-gon died. The same reason why Anakin won't mind disobeying the jedi; they never liked him in the first place. ;)

    And of course, everything's from our own point of view. Everything's psychological. I'm not gonna get you to enjoy TPM any more than you do now, and you won't get me to enjoy TPM and less than I do now. I still find TPM to be a great film and introduction for the saga.

    Cometgreen
  13. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    This thread = train wreck.
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