You know what line pisses me off in SbS?

When Leia's talking about the Vong, and she summarily dismisses their gods as non-existant! Not only is she a trained diplomat, but she's also inherited this "mystical energy field" that the vast majority of the Galaxy can't feel or control. To have her say that is simply irresponsible!

Of course, I have no doubts that the Vong gods don't really exist and that SHimrra just made up some omens when he saw GFFA, but she's just summarily dismisses their religion and their culture! It's not every single Vong that's evil, it's the way their culture has led them. Like almost any society, the warriors are taking orders from higher up in the food chain.

 

Yes, in that regard, Leia shows striking resemblance to certain members of the Christian church, who summarily dismiss all other religions as false and leading to hell.

Lovely, isn't it.

 

i agree. she is/was a diplomat. she knows not to do crap like that, especially when she wants to suck up to them. like in TPM(sorry to mention it here) when QuiGon saved JarJar (idiot). he respected their gods/ society. I was kinda thinkin the same thing when i read it.

 

sounds like George Bush

 

Dammit, I'm getting tired of all this inflammatory remarks about the Christian faith.

P.S. Leia's dumb anyway.

 

welll....they are kinda trying to take over the galaxy she lives in...and always seem to be coming at her with those staffs, or flying bugs, or globs of goo, hunting down her kind<the jedi> and her children, lost loved ones. there faith is weird to her, and their other beliefs, she hasn't gotten to know 'the light side of them' if there is one, i've only seen one glimpse of it. and how'd their culture get that way, i don't know, but for all that....


i wouldn't give a hoot bout them either come to think of it.

 

Good point. The fact that she is a diplomat and lived and dealt with so many different cultures is another very not-so-subtle allegory to our world. Some christians consider themselves the epitome of open-mindedness because they can agree with other types of Christianity. (A Catholic saying that a Protestant's veiws are possible, for example). This is very similar to Leia, who can accept the beliefs of the cultures in the GFFA, but not any from outside the GFFA (i.e. the Vong).

--Darthparth

 

Dammit, I'm getting tired of all this inflammatory remarks about the Christian faith.

Sorry - my comment was not meant to be inflammatory. As you may see, I specifically said some, not all. But while we're on the topic of inflammatory remarks, why don't you think about the ratio of remarks from the Christian faith against other religions, and compare that to the inflammatory remarks from Christians. Then, take into account the inflammatory remarks and downright hostility from all religions towards atheists and agnostics.

Puts it in perspective a litte, doesn't it?

 

Dammit, I'm getting tired of all this inflammatory remarks about the Christian faith.

Dammit, I'm getting tired of books in flames because of the Christian faith.


j/k, I know they didn't represent all of Christianity or anything, and this is the wrong forum for that discussion anyway...

 

Nice one, Darthparth- well said.

 

Whoa, whoa, Fluke is right. Some of Ya'll need to cut it with the whole anti-christian thing around here.
About what Leia said though. See here's the thing, at first when she said that I was like whoa... whoa... hold on there child. But you know what? These guys are trying to destroy her whole universe, and not only that but the way she and everyone else probobly sees it is that there's no way their gods could be real if their telling them to do all this crap to another universe.

 

Well, you're right - those actions by Leia in SbS are pretty annoying. But they betray a little of her character. She was born into royalty, had power, prestige and honor from birth. She was always contrary and arrogant - so it should really come as now surprise that, now that she's given up on diplomacy, the facade of open-mindedness she carried has now been cast aside for a more conventional view on theology that is, dare I say it, allegorical, if not intentionally.

 

You know, not all Christians are as closed-minded as you might think. Just like any other faith/culture/race/club/political party/anything else out there, the only ones you ever hear about are the bad ones. Everyone knows about the rich, fat, drunken television preachers, but nobody ever hears about the good faithful Christian who helps an old lady cross the street. That's just how the world is. Same with Muslims--we've all heard of the hijackers, but nobody pays attention to the faithful, peaceful Muslim who helps a poor man get back on his feet. You just don't hear about good deeds. Only bad ones.

You know, I had a point to this, but I seem to have forgotten what it was. Oh well.

 

i had the same problem with SBS, but they are coming in and saying this galxacy is ours were completely right your wrong and thats all there is to say about it.

the have a finatical view veiw that they are right much like bin laddens view on islam, theres no saying you are wrong to them, if they were any room for discusen she would give creidence to the religion.

 

Again, the purpose, and content of my post has been mis-interpreted.

Some of Ya'll need to cut it with the whole anti-christian thing around here.

Read it again, and you will notice, I didn't say anything about Christians in general, as I despire generalizations, for the most part. I said some, which means just that. And this is, let us keep in mind, a StarWars forum. The only reason I even mentioned Christianity is because the particulars we are discussing about Leia happened to remind me of some christians. And please, lets not, for the sake of not displaying our hypocrisy, talk about anti-christianity. Because we never failed to display, at every possible occasion, our anti-islamic, anti-hindu, anti-anything-that-doesn't-conform-to-the conservative-views-held-by-most-of-our-country feelings.

 

You know, not all Christians are as closed-minded as you might think.

I don't think that. For the love of every God or power of every concievable faith or belief, read my post!

Back to the point of this thread:

I think thats a good point Exar-tull, and we have done much the same thing in this country - we ignore fanatical views. This is a good approach, I think, when faced with such closemindedness (Vong). However, the GFFA doesn't know enough, IMO, to make this kind of decision. Even still, the GFFA is learning some of the values and customs of the Vong. And until they have a more complete knowledge, I believe they should remain a bit more open-minded. I feel that Leia was probably speaking/thinking more out of anger than any logical/rational thought.

 

I don't think a people have any responsibility to be open minded towards the religion of a race which has just murdered billions of people, sacrifices to sate mysterious gods and plans to wipe their galaxy absolutely clean of all sentient life and its creations.

The people of the GFFA WOULD have been open minded had the Vong gone about colonisation in a different way, like Leia said.

I don't think anyone has any responsibilty to pay heed to a religion which calls for their death without quesiton or quater. The Vong have no plans to sit around an open fire and intelligently discuss culture differences and religious beliefs.

The people of the GFFA have no opportunity to be open minded.

 

Mastadge, why does Leia have to hold to her diplomatic background when the situation is way beyond diplomacy?

 

...but it's okay for Bel Iblis to fire turbolasers into a screen of refugee ships. Not ion cannons, but turbolasers!!!

I say after all the Vong have done to that family, she has every right to be pissed and ignorant.

 

when did she say this?? was it in that public broadcast thingy? if so, then you could simply put it down to her being a demagogue that is appealing to people's basic reactions and attempting to unify the populace with remarke like that.

just a thought

 

Leia shows striking resemblance to certain members of the Christian church

Only the christian church? In a word: HA!
They're all alike, take it from an agnostic like me. I don't see any special religions, I see a lot of different, special people who are no better or different than each other.

PS
I thought Leia was right. After they murdered her son for nothing and trillions of others, I wouldn't acknowledge their existence if they stood right in front of me. Is she supposed to be considerite of their feelings or something? What the heck? ?

 

Dammit, I'm getting tired of all this inflammatory remarks about the Christian faith.


Actually its not the Christian faith that should be talked about in context of being closeminded.

More its some "particular" members of that faith that are.....intolerant or ignorant of other points of view.

Anyway, I don't think Leia was wrong. I mean the Yuuzhan Vong are way more intolerant than anyone. They kill people that don't see it their way.

 

I don't think the Vong are evil-just mislead. Take the middle east for example. They don't even know we landed on the moon, and think the United States in in poverty all over, and they have the good life. I think Leia does not know the whole story and neither do some the Vong fighting.

 

They're all alike, take it from an agnostic like me. I don't see any special religions, I see a lot of different, special people who are no better or different than each other.


I don't believe in agnostics. I went all the way, have been all my life- it's very liberating. But I agree overall, how respectful should she be- Not very, IMHO.

 

Black_Hole...
"Take the middle east for example. They don't even know we landed on the moon, and think the United States in in poverty all over, and they have the good life."

I really wouldn't use either example to prove how primitive/ignorant/close-minded a culture is. And I'd definitely stay away from sweeping generalizations.

Take the United States for example. There's people who don't even know we landed on the moon, and think the United States isn't in poverty all over, and they have the good life. Or conversely, there's people in the United States for example who'll call you a government stooge for believing the government in telling us we landed on the moon. There's loonies and idiots the world over. In that regard, I'd say the U.S. has more of them per capita than anywhere else, including the Middle East.

The good life isn't really related to money/prosperity at all. Compare a couple in the Chicago suburbs making a combined $400,000 a year who have no concept of family and neglect their kids while they go skiing for a week; or a upper middle class family whose teenage sons end up going on a violent murderous killing spree at their high school; or a upper middle class family whose 15 year old decides to fly a plane into a skyscraper - versus a poor, rural Southern family making below poverty who may have a very strong sense of family and truly does have "the good life." The idea of what's good in life is not uniform the world over. And most often, money has nothing to do with living the good life.