Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest
, Apr 26, 2010.
HemsThor leaving the MCU would be an opportunity to introduce Jane Foster's Thor, but there's a major problem with that idea as the MCU currently stands because this happened...
So, the best alternative is the horseface wielder of "Stormbreaker."
Former Grand Champion.
USA representing at the Olympics.
How about Valkyrie gets to be the new "Thor" lead (albeit as "Valkyrie" and not "Thor")?
the way Ragnarok ended I think they're leaning towards King Thor sitting on his throne while Insert Thor spin off character here goes on the adventuring.
Yeah, I have no idea why people have this obsession with Sif leading a film (seriously, what's the deal with Sif?), but I'd be all for Valkyrie. Frankly though, I don't think they really need to work on another Thor film for a long time. They have dozens of characters to make films about. Give Chris a break, and if he wants to lead his own film, he can do so several years from now.
I do like the Sif character myself and would be happy if she came back. However, I'd vote Valkyrie on the grounds that I think she was a more rounded character and had an arc.
Yah I highly doubt "movies featuring Asgardians" will end with Avengers 4, the question is who/what? Like they could pull a She-Loki (Loki can, and has, swapped to a gal whenever they want) and then have a bunch of female-Loki movies.
I wonder what happens to Valkyrie. I don't recall seeing her in the Infinity War trailer. We only see Thor and Loki.
Valkyrie taking Thor’s spot as the lead while Thor gets given an Odin type role would be fine. Of course I’d still prefer Thor to have the lead, but that’s the next best option IMO. But they seriously need to get Beta Ray Bill in there ASAP.
I guess Jane Foster as Thor-Girl is out of the question. But when I think about it, I’d probably enjoy that just as much as Valkyrie as the lead.
Hawkeye is absent as well. I am sure there are many more...probably plot points.
Isn't that him next to Gamora?
^ referring to IW trailer, not anniversary poster
Yep. Thanks for the assist.
Continue on the road to Infinity War, next up Iron Man 3.
Released: May 3, 2013 - Worldwide Box Office: $1.2 Billion
I remember going into the film it was uncertain if Robert Downey, Jr. would return as Tony Stark/Iron Man in any of the upcoming Marvel movies as Iron Man 3 was the last film that RDJ was contractually obligated to do. RDJ was still not under contract when Iron Man 3 dropped into theaters and thus (to my mind) had an effect on the script and ending of the film. RDJ was seeking $50 million to be in the untitled Avengers 2 (at the time) sometime after the incredible numbers Iron Man 3 was pulling in at the box office.
Additionally, going into the film, it was expected that Iron Man would finally throw down with his comic book arch nemesis, "The Mandarin" and this terrorist organization known as "The 10 Rings." Throughout the first two Iron Man films, the "10 Rings" made its presence known. It was the "10 Rings" that kidnapped Tony Stark and held him hostage in order to build a weapon.
In the second Iron Man film, there "Ten Rings" Easter Eggs. And after completing the film, the director of Iron Man 2, Jon Favreau, made the following comments in an interview with MTV in 2010:
So, Marvel fans were lead to believe by the director of the first two Iron Man films and the trailers for Iron Man 3, that the Iron Man trilogy would end with the showdown between his most notable enemy "The Mandarin" much like the MCU's Phase III closing out with the Avengers' showdown with Thanos.
I also remember attending SDCC in 2012 the year before Iron Man 3 and seeing the Mark 42. I hated the color scheme being more gold than red. I thought that can't be a good sign.
Anyway, Iron Man 3, was the first follow up film to the highly successful The Avengers movie and everyone's favorite MCU character was back in his own film. So, there was alot of good will for movie. So, the film opens up with a Tony Stark voice over saying "We create our own demons" as we see Stark's work shop and Iron Man armor suits being blown up, and then we get the "Marvel" title card and then goes into a flashback to a 1999 New Year's Eve party were Tony creates his demon that would lead to him being Iron Man as this is where he meets Aldrich Killian. It's so Tim Burton's Batman 89 where Batman creates the Joker.
Later in the film, we see Tony suffering PTSD with him not being able to sleep at night and seeing a child's drawing of him at a restaurant. I thought this would be an interesting take on the character and I was looking forward to see how the film uses that element to create more depth to the story and Stark's character. The film doesn't do much with it.
"We create our own demons" is the running theme for every Iron Man film and Avengers: Age of Ultron, which I will get to when the road to Infinity War stops there.
The scene where Tony's Malibu home is destroyed is the highlight if the film for me. It was setup beautifully with Tony declaring war and revenge on the Mandarin and basically saying to the camera, "Come at me bro!" Which the Mandarin did and Tony barely escaped with his life. I felt from here on out, the movie was just going to be an all out war. However, the film takes a snooze dive after this moment and never really recovers as it's more of a James Bond type of gadget film than a man in an iron suit movie.
I'm just going to jump to "The Mandarin" twist as I found Tony in a small town without any tech and stuck with a young boy not all that interesting. Many fans were upset by this reveal, that "the Mandarin" featured in the trailers and set up by the previous Iron Man films was just merely a drunk actor. This was the equivalent of Luke Skywalker tossing Anakin's lightsaber over his shoulder in The Last Jedi. (Thankfully, we won't see Thanos throwing the Infinity Stones/Gauntlet over his shoulder when Infinity War drops) I was a little taken back myself, but I kept my mind opened and let the rest of the story unfold. There wasn't much left in the story to tell or a climatic build to finish off the Iron Man trilogy, as Tony is not struggling to resolve his PTDS or seeking revenge on the Mandarin anymore, as the story then turns to "Who's the man behind the Mandarin" and "we have to save the US president."
So, it's not really "The Mandarin" reveal bums me out on Iron Man 3 but rather third act of the film. The Air Force rescue was scene was thrilling, but like the airplane rescue scene in Superman Returns is really doesn't amount to much, especially since Tony wasn't actually there. (Again, it's like The Last Jedi, when Luke isn't even on Crait). Tony Stark is never really in an Iron Man suit more than a few seconds. I thought the "House Party Protocol" looked pretty cool on the armor suits arrival, but the battle with the Extemis Soldiers lacked any emotions or intensity for me. It was just Tony bouncing from one suit of armor to the next. I thought that cheapen Tony's armor as they were all expendable. And at the end of it all, Tony didn't even defeat Killian as it was Pepper. I didn't find that a satisfying ending to the "10 Rings" or the Iron Man trilogy. And it's not a "Pepper" thing; it's a story arc/hero's tale thing. In short, Tony did not slay the demons he created.
After Pepper rescues Tony by killing Killain, Tony executes the "Clean Slate Protocol" which turns his armor into a fireworks show. And course, the film ends with Tony returning to what's left of his Malibu home saying his armor was a cocoon and he's a changed man and you can't take away they fact that's he's Iron Man.
As noted above, Iron Man 3 being the last movie RDJ was contractually obligated to do effect the script and ending of the movie. The third act was RDJ and Shane Black saying RDJ made Iron Man and not the suit, tricks or toys, so if RDJ doesn't come back to the MCU here's his send off like Hugh Jackman's Logan. Basically, I feel Iron Man 3 was more of a send off for Robert Downey, Jr. as Iron Man more than a conclusion to the Iron Man trilogy. I mean, the film doesn't end where Tony is looking forward to more days as a super hero, but rather ending them.
The end credits with Bruce Banner was cute.
I just didn't feel Iron Man 3 was a good story. The drama and climatic build for Tony's revenge on The Mandarin was under cut and deflated by the reveal that Aldrich Killian was the man behind the Mandarin and he wanted revenge of his own as Tony Stark was mean to him. Thus, giving the film an satisfying ending.
Yes, I know about the "Hail to the King" one-shot, revealing that there really is a Mandarin, but that is a post facto retcon Marvel did only to appease fans, as noted in an IGN report.
This quote by Shane Black notes they didn't understand there was a build up for the Mandarin in the previous films, nor the importance of the character to the Iron Man mythos. I believe the Marvel executive Black is referring to Ike Perlmutter, who made a fortune on selling Marvel toys. Fortunately, Perlmutter is no longer with the MCU proper. Moreover, Perlmutter is known for being cheapskate, thus the problems with the deal for RDJ getting done and the absence of the Avengers' theme music in Age of Ultron.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out the Iron Man 3 was plagued with alot of behind the scene issues that effected the script, characters and ending. And therefore, the final product wasn't want many fans expected and for me, added up to a non-compelling story and a anti-climatic ending.
Iron Man 3 is one of my least favorite MCU films.
It was a fun movie overall, but the end of it makes no sense with him returning to the Iron Man suit in Ultron as if nothing had happened. We only get a brief glimpse of the consequences of returning to the suit when Civil War hints that he and Pepper are on the outs. But it’s all glossed over.
I guess we’re supposed to conclude that he went suitless for a few months after IM3 ended, for Pepper’s sake. But then like a junkie, he went back to suit building and she was none too happy about it. It’s a shame she had such a small role in Spider-Man: Homecoming, where they’re apparently back together as if nothing had happened.
Interesting you mention this, because it seems like he still has that mindset when Avengers: Age of Ultron starts, setting up the events of that film. Of course, the outcome causes him to change direction in time for Captain America: Civil War.
Yeah, he does have that mindset. However, in Iron Man 3 Tony blows up all his suits and everything Iron Man. In Age of Ultron he wants to be a suit around the world.
Every time I watch Iron Man 3, I see it as RDJ's farewell film.
The Mandarin Twist was surprising to me when I first saw Iron Man 3, but it wouldn't have been a problem if the twist didn't lead into a forgettable third act. The Mandarin started off great, but turned out to be just another rich, white business man to be another nemesis for Tony Stark. Third film in a row, too...
...until it was completely retconned by "All Hail the King". If the film was good on its own, that would be fine, but it isn't. Iron Man 3 has nothing to offer that the later films didn't overwrite and I can watch both Avengers films back to back without feeling like a crucial part of Tony Stark's development is missing.
You know, with Age of Ultron they could've easily given us a better explanation for Tony getting back in the suit. He could've started out saying "I'm not doing the Iron Man thing anymore" and decides to create Ultron to protect the world in his place...then when Ultron goes rogue he then has a reason to come out of retirement. I'm actually surprised they didn't do this.
I felt Tony's speech in Civil War to Cap about how Pepper left him is a nice piece of paying off the "blowing up the suits in IM3, no wait, just kidding I'm still Iron Man in AoU". Took a few years and movies to get to it but it does have dramatic impact when you watch the series together. Tony and Pepper reconnecting again off screen in Homecoming is a nice moment, if somewhat unearned, cuz it took from Tony is genuinely paying for going back to Iron Man and losing the woman he loves to "Oh, it was just another spat, we're wacky!." Still, the "I blew up the suits" to "Na, I'm still Iron Man" to him being really on edge and alone in Civil War (which has an affect on the decisions he makes in the process of the film) does work in between the lines.
For Infinity War, honestly, I'm just going to go watch Avengers / Avengers: Age of Ultron and Captain America: Civil War as the main building blocks. Mayyyybe GotG V1 in there somewhere too, if only it has the most Thanos in it.
@Sith_Sensei__Prime - agree with your Iron Man 3 review. Thinking about it, IM3 does feel like RDJ's farewell film although I won't be surprised if Marvel somehow finds a way for him to be in phase four.
Darrel: I wish it was the Grandmaster and Topaz* though. Jeff and Rachel had fantastic chemistry, and her straight woman executioner schtick helped sell just how utterly bonkers The Grandmaster was. The Darrel thing is starting to wear out its welcome for me. Goldblum is just a joy though so I'll let it pass.
She died though didn't she? I forget...
So, speaking of Black Panther and larger MCU timeline placement, having seen the film, it looks like it takes place, like, a week after Civil War. And the events of the film can't be more than a few days. So it's definitely before when Parker tangled with The Vulture (cuz remember Peter was cooling his heels for months after Civil War) so that'd make BP a prequel to SM:H. And probably Thor: Ragnarok as well (considering that movie ends with a mid-credits stinger from Infinity War) but you can't quite nail down the T:R timeline as the Grandmaster said "Time works real different around these parts. On any other world I would be millions of years old but here on Sakaar..."
As for BP post-credits
I don't know if the scene with T'Challa at the U.N. is from Infinity War, but I'd bet good money that the Bucky post-credits scene is from Infinity War.
Saw BP at a Saturday 4 PM show and the Marvel zombie geek quotient (a few days after opening Thurs night) seemed to be a bit lower, like the requiste Stan Lee cameo (which was great as usual), which blows the roof off the place on opening night shows of any Marvel movie, really only had a few people in the theatre laughing hard like me and my cousin and maybe somebody else. And when a certain character shows up in the post-credits, heard a few questions of "who is that?" But inside Marvel reference
when T'Challa's sister says "Another sick white boy for us to fix." that was really inside for MCU geeks but me and my cousin were "OH! She's talking about Bucky!!"
You know more about the timeline than Marvel studios do.
That "Another white boy to fix" is talking about Martin Freeman. You're right, Bucky was their first fixer upper.
I need to get this last homework assignment handed in tomorrow night before I attempt to see BP late Wednesday morning. If I do not go then, I do not know when I'll be able to squeeze it in and I'd like to see it this week.