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Amph "You think you're the only superhero in the world? (Insert Snark)" - The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest , Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2004
    Actually I was kinda thinking...why don't Black Widow, Hawkeye and Falcon all have Iron Man suits? Tony not wanting to give his suit technology away to the government or general public, sure that makes sense...but there's no reason why his fellow Avengers need to be fighting on foot.
     
  2. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    You're assuming that they want to use the suits. Maybe he offered and they rejected it because they like doing things their own way.
     
  3. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Apr 25, 2004
    But...that...makes...no...aughhh.

    I'm just going to go with, there is no good in-universe reason for them not to have Iron Man suits.
     
  4. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    In my head-canon, the Bleeding Edge armor is the result of Stark taking advantage of the Wakandan tech-sharing initiative at the end of Black Panther. Having a whole suit made of vibranium would probably bankrupt him, I would imagine.
     
  5. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Regarding Avengers fighting Avengers, if Bucky counts as Avenger now...even if he didn't in Winter Soldier, would that still count as Avenger vs Avenger (Bucky vs Steve, Natasha, and Sam)?
     
  6. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

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    May 25, 2000
    He wasn’t an Avenger at the time. That’s also why I don’t count Ant-Man vs. Falcon.
     
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  7. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 19, 2017
    There isn't. There are good storytelling reasons to not have essentially 3-4 variations on Iron Man constituting your cross-over team but if you over analyze it it starts to break down. It can work situationally to provide a change of presentation (such as with Bruce in the Wakanda battle) but the old adage "it takes all kinds to make a world" needs to be allowed to flourish in the end if it's a world you're wanting.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  8. DarthIntegral

    DarthIntegral SFTC June Tiemaster star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2005
    Because Natasha has spent DECADES learning how to turn her body into a weapon. And to use an Iron Man Suit would negate that. She would have to learn - all over again - how to fight, how to be nimble. Why don't we put our elite Marine's in super heavy indestructible armor? Because it would take away from their other strengths.

    And, when are they going to practice using the suit? It's not like they just put the suit on, and bam - they can use it.

    And, on top of that, if Tony isn't talking to Cap, he sure as hell ain't talking to Cap's friend, and he probably isn't talking to the lady who turned on his cause near the end of Civil War ... so ... when would they get suits?
     
  9. Alpha-Red

    Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Apr 25, 2004
    Yeah, but that's like someone who's spent their whole life training to use a longbow or katana...and then all the sudden guns are invented.

    Oh yeah, speaking of which, Stark should have his suits made from vibranium. And Black Panther's suit ought to be able to fly!
     
  10. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    Quite a bit of it was luck. The film rights to Iron Man were locked up at New Line Cinema, after being sold to them by Fox. When NLC failed to get the project going with Nick Cassavetes in 2004 for a 2006 release, the rights went to Marvel. Joe Simon's lawsuit with Marvel over Captain America delayed the film from being made by Artisan Entertainment and once that was settled, the rights reverted back to Marvel. Thor was at Artisan and Sony until Paramount purchased the rights at the same time they got the rights for Cap. If those studios had made the films, rather than letting sit there languishing, Marvel wouldn't have had the founding members necessary to pull of Phase One. Fiege's luck was just that. Not so much a shrewd move.

    They don't want them because they A) know how Tony treated his suits with Rhoades and B) they rely on their own skills rather than using Stark tech. Banner is the only one to use a suit since he's useless right now.

    Why wouldn't they? There's no hard and fast rule about membership drives and how one joins up. Sam and Scott both joined up with Steve, even though they didn't call themselves Avengers. Same with Peter not formally signing on as an Avenger, but siding with Tony.

    It still comes down to being a personal choice. Natasha doesn't need a suit because she doesn't want one and has proven that she doesn't need one. If she needs to fly, she finds a Quint Jet or "borrows" a plane. Sam has his wings which gives him all that he needs. Clint has proven his bow and arrows are efficient against the Chitauri, Zemo's Hydra agents and his teammates. Like Natasha, he can find alternate means to fly.

    This is like asking why doesn't Hal Jordan make duplicate rings for the other members of the Justice League.
     
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  11. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    So this is a backwards retcon but the random goons that Hawkeye equips to help Loki in Avengers, those have to be HYDRA, right? Like when they attack the hellicarier, they're all decked out as SHIELD agents. The closest you get to an explanation is Hawkeye saying "SHIELD has a lot of enemies, doctor" So maybe Loki mind controlled a SHIELD/HYDRA sleeper and he got a bunch of other HYDRA agents on the trolley.
     
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  12. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    There is no reason. From a logical standpoint the team is really unevenly balanced and about half if its members have no business being there at all (Captain America, Hawkeye, Black Widow). Just one of the many bizarre facets of this franchise.

    We could also point out that the character of the Hulk has literally nothing to do with emotional control or being angry any longer, even though that was literally the core of the character concept. These films are financially successful. That doesn't mean they're even minimally coherent as narratives, let alone "good."
     
  13. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

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    May 22, 2000
    You and I have a very different definition of "luck."
     
  14. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    There was probably a 50-50 split of sleeper agents and actual loyal ones.

    Why not the three of them? Cap has super strength, enhanced reflexes and incredible endurance. He's already proven that he can survive alien weaponry long before the invasion of NYC. Clint and Natasha are former SHIELD agents, who trained for situations like this. As I pointed out, Natasha proved herself. When she ran out of ammo, she commandeered a Chitauri vehicle and used its to get up to Stark tower and then used one of their weapons to fight. Clint's arrows took down several Chitauri soldiers and distracted Loki long enough for the Hulk to clean his clock.

    The Hulk has also evolved as a character in the comics, with the periods when Banner controlled the Hulk directly and the Hulk persona coming out on his own accord, because he was super ticked off.

    Who took a **** in your cornflakes today?

    How so?
     
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  15. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    I look at luck as something by chance; something as likely not to happen as it is to happen.

    Those studios that failed to launch an Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor films were pretty predictable. Therefore, Marvel just waited for the film rights of the characters to revert back to them, which they did. It's not really luck, but rather having inside industry knowledge. It's really not that hard to figure out if a studio is having trouble with the production, must less, creating a script for a film.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Feige on future projects.

    He says the studio has tentative plans for a “Power Pack” film: “because we wanted to do something for families, something that’s a little younger, Ant-Man has kind of become that franchise, certainly with Ant-Man and the Wasp, but Power Pack still is one of the many things that we discuss.”

    Another thing in discussion is a film based on Jack Kirby’s iconic The Eternals characters: “There’s this notion of all of these myths and legends that we know from ancient times, were they inspired by the Eternals? Were they Eternals? It’s a very … you know, it’s an ancient aliens kind of sci-fi trope that we think would be fun to explore someday.”

    Feige says “Avengers 4” is deliberately putting the focus on the original ‘Avengers’ with Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and The Hulk teaming up. He’s also indicated that despite everyone being aware of what future MCU films are coming out: “the mere fact that those films exist, people shouldn’t take any indication that they can now guess what will happen.”

    Finally, Jake Gyllenhaal is NOT yet closed to play Mysterio in “Spider-Man: Far From Home,” and the first “Captain Marvel” trailer is “still a few months” off and the fourth “Avengers” title won’t be revealed until after – sometime towards year’s end.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
  17. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Some more (likely) merchandise related leaked art, this time for Captain Marvel.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
  18. PCCViking

    PCCViking Chosen One star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Strange seeing a Nick Fury with hair and both eyes.
     
  19. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

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    Dec 18, 2012
    Not interested in the bulk of the new movies mentioned. That is okay though: Have enough good MCU to revisit until something else I want to see comes out.
     
  20. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Another leaked merch image. Pretty much variations on the group image that came out several days ago, but it does have a closer shot of Nat and she's sportin' a bit of a new look for her that wasn't quite as obvious before.

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Sith_Sensei__Prime

    Sith_Sensei__Prime Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 22, 2000
    Yeah, the new promo images of the Avengers has been flooding my social media feed. Not much of spoilers for those that figured it would be that way, and it's just featuring characters' new looks. Personally, I don't have to see one image of anything from Avengers 4 as my tickets are already bought. It is truly...
    [​IMG]

    As for Feige's comments on future films for the MCU like Power Pack and the Eternals, well, I didn't have interests in either in comic book form. I thought Power Pack was for toddlers and I never really was a fan of the Marvel Cosmic side of things. However, the MCU has done an amazing job of bringing comic book characters I really didn't like or read, such as Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Guardians of the Galaxy etc. So, Power Pack might be geared towards toddlers, which is fine and would definitely expand the reach of the MCU. And should a Power Pack film ever be made, I hope it's in the same vein as old Disney classics like Bednobs and Broomsticks or Escape to Witch Mountain. And as I understand it, Eternals are like the cosmic version of the X-Men, which is a nice back up to the X-Men should the Disney deal with Fox fall through and since the Inhumans TV series crashed and burned.

    But, we'll be getting sequels to Black Panther and Doctor Strange to look forward to, as well as Vol. 3 to Guardians of the Galaxy.
     
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  22. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 19, 2017
    The Eternals is interesting. They've said Phase 4 will be much more cosmic focused. I've only read Gaiman's Eternals and that was very Ancient Aliens/Chariots of the Gods and was set completely on Earth. I believe Feige has made that comparison himself before when talking about the Eternals. I guess they could use that as a springboard to go more cosmic though it seems like Captain Marvel will fill that purpose itself. I'm pretty sure that Kirby's Eternals was more cosmic overall to begin with and intersects with Thanos to provide a stronger hook. Just curious as to which way they go with it at this point.


    And now a little SLJ:

     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  23. Bilbo Fett

    Bilbo Fett Jedi Knight star 3

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    Apr 19, 2017
  24. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Disney has shifted around release dates for various films. On the Marvel side of things, the Untitled July 30th 2021 has been moved up to Feb 12th.
     
  25. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    So about timelines and viewing orders of Ant Man and Mad Titans keeping the beat

    So as I can figure it out, the chronology viewing order for me is (Doc Strange can go before or after Civil War, really, that movie seems like it takes place over awhile personally I'd go with before Civil War meself) but major beats and timeline-wise Civil War > Black Panther > Homecoming > Ant Man & The Wasp > Thor Ragnarok > Infinity War

    Well, yes the teasers in AM&W spoil the IW ending. Fairly bad idea! But, hey, I've already seen Infinity War and it sort of functions as a random no-context teaser and besides the stinger in Ragnarok seems to work much, much better into the start of IW.

    So where does Ant Man & The Wasp take place? It's 2 years after Civil War which is where Infinity War stands, two years after CW. So they seem very close to each other. Well, obviously, the stingers are concurrent with Infinity War's ending. but, to me, I would think that the movie proper probably takes place before the events of Infinity War, maybe only a week or two but I don't see their adventure happening as New York got attacked, Iron Man went missing, etc. like there is quite a lot of news footage in Ant Man & The Wasp and nobody mentions any of that. And there's an upgrade to the technology to make it Van Sized and that isn't something I think they just did in an hour. So, yah, I would assume there's a time skip between the final scene of Ant Man and the Wasp, a few days, a week and the post-credit scenes, wherein all of Thor Ragnarok and Infinity War takes place.

    This does create a bit of snafu where Black Widow says that Scott is under house arrest when his house arrest technically ends before the credits for Ant Man and the Wasp roll but, hey, they were in a hurry, they probably thought he was still under house arrest. And, it seems likely, they thought he had destroyed the Ant-Man suit, as what Hank Pym thought too.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2018