Amph "You think you're the only superhero in the world?" - The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Those weren't two superheroes (well, I mean Cap's a superhero, but not in the way you're describing it).

Winter Soldier was a SPY. Cap was, at that moment, a SPY. It was two SPIES fighting while the premier SPY organization crumbled around them.

 

We have seen spy movies before: Munich; Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy. We have seen espionage based shows, too, like The Americans. We have even seen fiction with an ostensible espionage premise, even if it deviates somewhat from that, like in Jason Bourne series (though the novels are much more faithful than the movies). This film had basically nothing in common with them. Come on.

That's really an aside though. The greater point was that just because they were fighting a secret organization doesn't mean spies are the only ones with a role to play. Look at the real world. Yes, a major part of intelligence services is classic analysis and human intelligence. But sometimes, it also requires paramilitary operations that are closer to brute force. Sometimes, it requires technology experts. It would be insane to rule out someone's help just because they weren't trained to be a field operative. You use whatever tools and expertise you need to get the job done. Here, there are pretty clearly ways that Stark could've helped against something that he designed. It's dumb to ignore him. Likewise, the Hulk's brute force would be quite useful, too.

 

EXCEPT, the whole idea of HYDRA infiltrating SHIELD was that ANYONE could be HYDRA and HYDRA could be anywhere. This was pretty much the key part of the film. HYDRA had been at this since WW2 ended and had infiltrated the highest levels of the government that SHIELD itself was HYDRA and was too corrupt to survive. A United States Senator, the head of SHIELD, various agents spread world wide. People Cap and Widow worked with. People Coulson worked decades with and trusted with his life were traitors. Every person Cap went to was in danger. Why do you think he chose Sam? No one knew about Sam. HYDRA didn't need to monitor Cap's every moves either. Fury was doing that, so the idea of him talking to a guy on his run or later going to a vet support group? That's not even a blip on their radar. But the minute he tried to seek out Tony Stark who the world knows as Iron Man, you really think HYDRA wouldn't know? The only public member of the Avengers and the guy with the brains to take them on. I'm fairly sure that Cap wasn't going to risk everything to get to Stark. They had a plan, a limited window and few people they could trust. They infiltrated with Widow and the others and made due with what they had. I suspect the thinking was if they fail, Hulk could always smash later and maybe Tony could stop them then. But they had to try first.

How is it silly? The last movie ended with Fury basically saying they'll come back when they need them to. But they all went back to their respective lives. You don't see Cap and Hulk running around in Iron Man 3. You don't see Iron Man jetting over to London or Cap getting air dropped there. Everyone also has their own respective lives to live. And as I said before, the bulk of this film occurs in absolute secrecy. Only the players involved know what's going on. So unless Cap makes the call to bring them in, none of the other Avengers have a clue of what's happening until the carriers go down and the news hits the internet. And by that time, it's over. So what you want to fault is Steve for making the decision not to call in the Avengers. And we've gone over that. The helcarriers had a set launch date and targets. They had barely enough time after Hill rescued them to get over there and infiltrate the Triskelion. In order for Stark to get over there, they'd first have to contact him-likely alerting HYDRA and then he'd have to jet over there with the suit as there is no other way for him to get there in time-DEFINITELY alerting HYDRA. At that point, their best hope of getting the drop on HYDRA goes out the window. Cap's a strategist- he would know that. We've already gone over why Bruce and Thor weren't options.

Huh? They literally built Agents of SHIELD's first season around Winter Soldier. The writers knew what was being planned and framed the season around it, having to avoid using the name HYDRA and sell Grant Ward as a good guy. They introduced the audience to other agents to care about so when they turned it would be believable. And they showed the effects of having HYDRA infiltrate SHIELD had on Coulson and his team tying directly into Cap's actions. How is that not coherent and well-thought? Stark is explained three times in the film itself: 1) He had input on the engines so he knew about the helicarriers and therefore would not be surprised if they launched. 2) Redford wants Iron Man at his granddaughter's birthday party in exchange for helping Nick. If you wanted to read into that, perhaps he wanted Tony distracted while he made his moves. 3) When the targetting system comes up, Tony is one of those flagged. And Thor would have no clue what's going on again as everything is happening covertly. Same for Banner. The only one who might know something is up is Barton- and it remains to be seen if he was undercover or elsewhere at the time.

 

That was a disappointing panel this year. We already knew Josh Brolin was playing Thanos and we already figured GotG would be getting a sequel if the movie was well received which it is... Come on Marvel, you've got 11 upcoming movies, you couldn't throw us a bone here? Not even Cap 3 and Thor 3 subtitles. Well there's always next year...

 

Yeah I was expecting they'd at least throw us a bone with a Dr. Strange or even a Captain Marvel casting announcement.

 

That is true. DC will still be promoting Batman vs Superman at that time which may feel more like a "Been there. Done that" type of thing by then. Meanwhile, Marvel will presumably have some Dr.Strange footage along with Cap 3 and who knows what else announced. At best, DC might finally put forth a Justice League teaser.

 

The internet is saying it's test footage, and given how it looks and how Fox has removed it from mostly everywhere, it's probably legit. TBH though I didn't know Fox was still in full rights to deadpool.

Another link since that one is down --> here

 

First, if I was going to tell you off, I'd say something that would get me temp banned. Second, these films don't always have to refer to the other characters. Just as the cartoons and comics don't. In the team books, be it the Avengers or the Justice League, they acknowledge when someone isn't available. In the 90's is was Cap being on the run in 1995-96 and Tony Stark being dead and replaced by a teenage version of himself from another timeline. In the JLA, it was Wonder Woman was dead and the Flash was out with injury. But in the solo books, this isn't something that needs to be brought up. When Superman was dead, in Batman's books, there was no mention of needing his help. When Tony Stark was fighting Venom, he wasn't hoping that the West Coast Avengers showed up to help him out, because he couldn't get to his suit fast enough.

Being a shared universe does not mean that the writers always have to acknowledge the existence of the other characters. In either conversation or showing them.

That's because S.H.I.E.L.D. is all but gone, leaving the Avengers to pick up the slack. Which wouldn't surprise me that down the line, the Avengers Initiative like in the comics doesn't start to come into play.

Again, three Avengers and two S.H.I.E.L.D. agents were enough to deal with this threat which was not the same as an alien invasion. And to make sure that the entire team wasn't assembled, three members of the team were taken out of action by the time the film starts intentionally and two were out of range.

 

Yeah Deadpool is tied into the X-Men rights. (Iast evidenced with Ryan Reynolds playing him in a small role in Origins: Wolverine)

 

Man, it totally didn't make sense that Thor didn't ask for the Hulk's help in all of that subjugation of rebellion in the Nine Realms at the beginning of The Dark World... that was all smashing, right up Hulk's alley!

 

From the articles I read this morning that Deadpool test footage is legit. I thought it was cool and quirky, but I like to see a live action version of it to get a better feel and look at the costume.

As for Marvel's shared cinematic universe, the desire or seemingly "sensical" for heroes to cross over and/or be referenced in solo films is inherently problematic by fans, not so much the film creators. I don't have a problem with a stand alone Captain America film. I actually enjoyed it, because I really didn't see how much of a badass cinema Cap was until Winter Soldier. Moreover, stand alone films allows the character breathing room and the ability to develop, as well as tell a variety of stories.

 

Fox will respond by making another Wolverine movie and giving Deadpool a small role but end up leaving his scenes on the cutting room floor to make room for more angsty Wolverine yelling at the sky scenes.

 

All the yelling Logan did in that movie made me think that Deadpool wasn't the one that needed his damn mouth removed.

 

I thought Wolverine yelling at the sky in rage a lot actually fit the B-movie revenge flick with superpowers tone. Don't actually hate Origins, I think the opening 5 minutes are damn near spectacular and after that ... hey, at least Wolverine is in it and he tears a hellicopter out of the sky using his claws and Leiv Schriber is chewing scenery all over the place.

 

Five minutes of Wolverine and Other!Sabretooth being shot to really drive it home they can't die and also fight in wars and stuff, yeah, that was great.

 

I totally thought it got the point across and set up an awesome tone that the proceeding movie that unfolds doesn't really live up to. If the movie was literally just a 90 minute montage of Wolverine and Sabertooth fighting wars for 100 years and randomly yelling and tearing into opposing soldiers, it woulda been one of the best goddamn movies ever!

 

I just feel like it was five minutes of extra exposition on top of the five minutes of exposition about how the two were brothers in Alberta.