Amph "You think you're the only superhero in the world?" - The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Yeah, this was kept relatively under wraps at the time, but the post-mortems quickly followed -- basically, it's the benefit of casting people like RDJ and Bridges, since Favreau basically let them improve on stage and then he and Feige worked with the editor to make everything into a cohesive whole.

It 100% would not have worked with lesser actors, or people unfamiliar with improvisation on a theme in the way those two were...

 

I keep thinking of the pizza scene as the apex of what was likely a very stoned filming session improv...

 

i doubt RDJ was stoned during Iron Man

 

Well, I've discussed the issues with IM2 at length (and why it fails, and AoU -- with much of the same narrative problems -- does better), but I still think you're crazy for not liking Iron Man 3...

 

The thing about Iron Man 3 is it is basically an answer to the question "What is Tony Stark without Iron Man?" from Avengers.

 

Speaking of Iron Man 2 and 3, both have been playing on FX recently and I caught Iron Man 2 and was so bummed they cut out the Coulson scene with Cap's shield. That was such a wonderful nerd moment that I can't believe it was cut. It also reminded me of the very humble beginnings of Agent Coulson.



As for Iron Man 3, I can't bring myself to watching it anymore. I think it's the worse of the trilogy, and I'm not going to say it's because of the Mandarin thing, it's an Iron Man thing. It turns into a James Bond type of a film. Moreover, since almost anyone can wear the suit of iron and there's a "house party" of Iron Men, it diminishes the uniqueness of Iron Man. And Iron Man didn't win the day, Pepper did. Basically, it was almost a film to write out Tony Stark from the MCU with RDJ's contract ending with Marvel. Just think, if RDJ didn't renew his contract, Pepper could have been Iron Man.

 

But that's how Iron Man has been since the 70's. James Rhodes, Happy Hogan, Eddie March and Michael O'Brien have all worn the suits. And since the 90's, I think, Tony has had his other suits aide him via remote control.

 

That's for the comic books when you have about 10 years/120 issues of Tony Stark being Iron Man. It's much harder when an entire franchise (the MCU) was built on RDJ's/Iron Man shoulders. I mean, you couldn't have a Civil War with Rhodey or Pepper. It's just not the same, and that's how I felt with Iron Man 3. It's like a Power Rangers movie.

 

I like the movie well enough, but fair enough. (I'm also not a an Iron Man fan, so maybe I give it more leeway?)

The movie actually says that the suit has nothing to do with "being" Iron Man; "You can take away my house, all my tricks and toys, but one thing you can't take away - I am Iron Man," Stark says at the very end. Wearing the armor doesn't make him Iron Man, it's what Stark brings to the table (commitment to the job, the tech know-how, the problem-solving skills) that make him Iron Man; the suit is just another tool he uses while being Iron Man.

 

Iron Man Three is very much a Shane Black movie that happens to have Iron Man in it. Which is no secret, on the press tour the filmmakers pretty much said that. Favreau called it "Kiss, Kiss, Iron Man". Personal preference depends if one digs Shane Black movies or not (Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Nice Guys, his script for Lethal Weapon, Last Boy Scout, Monster Squad, etc.). Killian is very much an 80s demigogue evil monologuing snide baddie that populate a lot of Black's flicks.

 

They always try to claim this in stories about people with robot suits and it always rings hollow. The gadgetry is litterally the only thing making him Iron Man, which is why he always wins due to suit upgrades. Let's not pretend anything else is even remotely true.

 

I honestly don't see that in this case.

That same reasons would suggest that the only thing that makes Batman Batman is his utility belt and Batcave. Would borrowing or stealing those make someone else Batman by default?

Think we're going to have to agree to disagree, eh?

 

Being eternally behind on all this, I will report that I finally saw Dr Strange.

Good stuff, my quibble is that I didn't like the hi-tech look of some of the 'magic'
That seemed a little out of place.

 

Yeah, I didn't really care for the "sling ring" or that origin of some "magic" could be explained by scientific means, such as where The Ancient One's power comes from to stay young and vibrant. I felt it diminished the mystical. I mean, Strange defeated Darmammu with something that felt more like science than magic.

 

I don't know, man. I like Shane Black movies and it's way more an Iron Man movie than it is a Shane Black movie. It has a fair amount of Shane Black moments (the suit getting hit by the truck; the guy who just gives up in the warehouse and, most obviously, the whole Mandarin reveal is totally Shane Black), but I mean, a lot of the movie could have been made by anybody. I mean, basically the last thirty minutes for sure could have been anybody.

 

I wasn't talking about replacing Tony Stark. Just that until the Extremis tech was introduced in the comics, the suits weren't keyed specifically to his body. Anyone could wear the suits for whatever reason Tony had. The films played that up early on with Rhodes looking at and then taking the suit that became the War Machine suit. And that there was a precedent in the comics for the suits operating on remote control without someone occupying them. Shane Black and Jon Faverau were just following the lore.

Except as shown in IM3, Tony had trouble making his suit work and had to rely on his brains to solve the problems at hand. He beat Killian through brains, not the suit. Even with the spare suits during the final battle, they were either being destroyed or he was yanked out of them. Even the Mark 43 was dysfunctional and thus leaving Tony in a position to rely on everything else.

As Bruce told Terry in "Batman Beyond", it's not the suit that makes you Batman, but the person that you are.

 

^ I seen a pic version of the comment in my social media feed the other day

I remember seeing a press promo by Hiddleston, Jackson and Larson a few weeks back and I did think it was something for Marvel.

 

And then when DC sell MCU the rights to Grodd...

 

Let's review.

1. Iron Man: Beats bad guy using the reactor of his robot suit

2. Iron Man 2: Beats bad guy by inventing a new element of the periodic table to power his robot suit

3. Iron Man 3: Beats bad guy with fifty bajillion automated robot suits, particularly the one piloted by his civilian girlfriend/work subordinate.

Yeah. Totally not depending on the robot suit.

. . .

 

Correction.

1. Tony has Pepper use the large Arc Reactor to kill Stane. Not the Arc Reactor of his suit which was out of power to defeat Stane.

2. Tony and Rhodey beat Ivan by blasting him with their repulsor rays at the same time.

3. Tony has the Mark 43 wrap itself around Killian, which he then detonates. But it doesn't kill him. Pepper uses a combination of Extremis tech and a gauntlet to take Killian out. Before then, Tony couldn't beat him with the suits. He had to use his wits and was helped by Pepper, in order to stop Killian.

 

I definitely see a lot of Shane Black in there, moments you mentioned, the quippiness of the script which has a different feel than the quippiness of IM 1 or 2. Big one is fact that the flick is inherently a murder mystery and leads to a sprawling conspiracy theory. The Christmas time theme, the opening voiceover flashback. The whole bit in the middle when Tony is literally being a detective in a town, complete with hiding his weaponry up his sleeve like a handgun, the kid having some of the best lines (which is actually really hard to pull off and generally can come off as annoying.) The smarminess of the bad guys really stands out as something Black does, just cuz I really dig Guy Pierce in anything and he gets to be slimier as it goes on. Love his exchange with President Ellis "What do you want from me?" "Uhm, nothing." James Badge Dale is the same, and a couple of the deaths, especially Dale on Air Force One, seem just this shade of R-rated, especially when Iron Man blows a hole through his chest and goes "Heal from that!" (but don't get R-rated for violence because they're glowing red people) Also for the finale which is more spectacle than most Black flicks, I still get his sensibility out of it with the docked oil tanker setting, the fake out with Armor Mark 43 falling apart, Tony going "Jarvis, do me a favour and blow Mark 43" and Pepper's finale swinging in with "Wow, that was really violent".