Amph "You think you're the only superhero in the world?" The Marvel Cinematic Universe

Discussion in 'Community' started by The2ndQuest, Apr 26, 2010.

  1. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    From what I've heard the "spinning corridor fight" is the scene in question that Vaughn felt was too similar.
  2. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Unfortunately I'd guess that that's exactly what he's talking about, as all the other fight scenes were pretty generic. I only hope that the Spider-Man makers were taking notes during that zero-g fight.
  3. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Rich Wilkes (Airheads, the xXx films) has been hired to write the screenplay for Iron Fist.
  4. soitscometothis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    One of the problems with adapting Iron Fist (who is one of my favourite Marvel super-heroes) to the big screen is that Batman Begins hits a lot of the major plot-points from Iron Fist's origin, even though Iron Fist actually did them first in the comics.
  5. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    I'm kind of hoping they don't make it an origin story. Apparently Feige holds the recent Fraction/Brubaker Iron Fist in high regard, so with any luck the movie will be a big kung-fu fantasy epic that only deals with the origin in backstory or flashbacks as necessary.
  6. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    Anyone know if Ray Park is still involved? I remember him talking about playing Danny Rand years ago but nothing ever came of it.
  7. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

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    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    You know, I never considered this until you pointed it out, but you are spot-on here. I've always viewed Batman Begins as an adaptation of Miller/Mazuchelli's Year One, but the film seriously diverges from that graphic novel in a number of key areas. The origin of Iron Fist seems nicely to fill in the gaps, with Heather replaced by Rachel and Lei Kung by R'as Al-Ghul, etc. That's an interesting connection I'll want to explore further. Thanks for mentioning it.
  8. soitscometothis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    The hero climbing a mountain in the East to reach a mysterious place where he is taught secret martial arts; the fact he is supposed dead, with his father's company inherited by an enemy; even the fact that Batman Begins is really a revenge story (even though Bruce continually denies that he is after revenge in the film, he seems to get an awful lot of it!), while Batman's fury in the comics never really had a singular focus...

    These were later additions to the Batman origin myth, post dating Iron Fist's origin. I think the Iron Fist movie team must have cried when they first saw BB.
  9. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance will be in 3D; rumor has it that Blaze will be battling Dracula in this installment. :rolleyes:
  10. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Okay, I've looked into this a little more deeply and I have to express a certain degree of caution and skepticism about the claim that Batman Begins derives parts of its origin story directly from that of Iron Fist (if you are indeed making that claim).

    Some of the overlapping ideas were already present for decades in Batman's mythology; the "revenge story" angle was introduced in the Batman comic in 1948, when Joe Chill was first created as the gunman who had shot and killed the Waynes. This pre-dates Iron Fist by more than 25 years. Also, revenge stories featuring adventuring heroes with secret identities is hardly a new idea; the Scarlet Pimpernel, Zorro and the Count of Monte Cristo are all literary heroes who meet such criteria. It is also a standard trope in Oriental legends and kung-fu action films, which inspired the creation of Iron Fist in 1974.

    The "hero climbing a mountain in the East to reach a mysterious place where he is taught secret martial arts" is also an Oriental legend/kung-fu movie trope. Indeed, in a 1971 Batman comic written by Denny O'Neill ("Daughter of the Demon", Batman #232), Batman climbs a snowy mountain in the Himalayas to reach the lofty hide-out of R'as Al-Ghul. A year later (in "The Lazarus Pit, Batman #243), Batman has a similar (but detail-different) adventure in which he ascends a snowy mountain up to R'as's hide-out and winds up having several kung-fu-type duels with various evil henchmen who attempt to instruct him in the ways of Eastern martial arts (prior to his whipping their butts). The insertion of this trope into Batman's origin story -- now Bruce Wayne climbs the mountain to seek instruction in martial arts prior to becoming Batman -- hardly represents borrowing or stealing from another comic book hero who also did some of the same things. Batman and Iron Fist share similar source material; one does not derive from the other.

    R'as Al-Ghul, the League of Assassins which R'as oversees, and his location on a snowy Asian mountain-top were all created in 1971, three years before Roy Thomas and Gil Kane created Iron Fist. The R'as character and his milieu were trans-located into Batman's origin story when Batman Begins was conceived as a prequel film that would use villains not yet seen in any of the four preceding Batman films. That combination of Eastern elements and characters with Batman's origin story, rather than representing an intentional "lift" from another comic hero, was organic to the screen-writing process. And as I discussed above, the revenge angle was already part of the Batman mythos since the late 40s.

    As to "the fact [Bruce] is supposed dead, with his father's company inherited by an enemy", I have yet to discover any Batman stories pre-dating Iron Fist's creation in which these elements occur. Among Batman's exploits they are likely unique to the film Batman Begins, but that does not mean perforce that they were directly inspired by Iron Fist. I'll continue to research this angle, and report back when I know more!
  11. soitscometothis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    You've misunderstood me. I'm not suggesting that Batman Begins deliberately copied these ideas from Iron Fist. What I was saying was that BB unfortunately hits most of the major plot-points in Iron Fist's origin, making it difficult for an Iron Fist film to deal with the origin story without looking like it is aping Batman, as an audience will assume that IF is merely a copy-cat.

    I'll post more in an hour or so.
  12. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    If they would just hand the project to Luc Besson or someone from his stable of filmmakers, this would have the potential for awesomeness.
  13. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Potential, yes. Former Besson guy Louis Leterrier did OK with the underrated Incredible Hulk, but also misfired with Clash of the Titans.
  14. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Ah, I see! I thought that might be the case but I was unsure. Thanks for clarifying, and I definitely see your point. Any Iron Fist movie will have to change those beats, or else dress them up in very different stylistic "clothing", in order to avoid accusations of copying Batman Begins.

    I'll post this message in the Batman thread, too, to round out the discussion there.
  15. soitscometothis Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 2003
    star 5
    The fact that Iron Fist's origin does use a lot of martial arts tropes means there is always a threat that another film will come out before or at the same time as the IF movie and steal its thunder, or at least dilute its impact.

    Iron Fist's origin is kind of a mix of Lost Horizon and Kung Fu (the TV series), and remakes of these would have an impact on any upcoming movie, I think. Also I heard some time ago that a movie version of the 1968 tv series The Champions was in the works, and that was a story about three espionage agents who crash into a mountain and receive special powers from a hidden city. Plus, Iron Fist was party inspired by Amazing Man (created 1939), who Marvel has successfully integrated into IF's continuity but don't (I think) hold the rights to. So I think there is always a threat of Iron Fist competing with similar stories, at least if they stick to his origin.

    An adaptation of the more recent Brubaker/Fraction Immortal Iron Fist run could be very good, but I don't know how easy it would be to make it introduce the character.
  16. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
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    It's being reported now that X-Men Origins: Magneto probably won't be happening now, as much of the material from David Goyer's script has been integrated into X-Men: First Class.
  17. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Cap in costume. It's a stunt double, not Chris Evans, but you'll get the idea.

    I hope it looks better in motion!

    http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/joshw24/news/?a=22418
  18. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    Sep 29, 2005
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    If the costume looks that passable on a chubby stunt guy with . . . bulge . . . problems, hopefully it'll hold up on Evans. And hopefully the shoulder pads on the non-stunt costume won't look quite so rubbery.
  19. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    And pictures of January Jones as Emma Frost: http://www.starpulse.com/news/Jeff_Luostari/2010/09/09/january_jones_as_emma_frost_set_pics_f

    I wonder if they're not going with the lingerie look from the comics, or just not in this scene.
  20. Spider-Fan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 4
    Well isn't it a period peice?
  21. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Is this not meant to fit with the Wolverine movie (which would put an Emma that age well into the late 80s, hardly go-go era)?

    To be honest, it looks like a lesser entry at a 60s costume party. Then again maybe they deserve some kind of backwards award for designing a costume that can make a woman like Ms. Jones look that frumpy.
  22. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    According to the IMDB FAQ: At the end of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine", Cyclops, Emma Frost, and a group of other young mutants escape from a prison on Three Mile Island and are greeted by a young Charles Xavier (played by a digitally enhanced Patrick Stewart) and are then presumably taken to help found Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters.

    However, the events of "X-Men: First Class" are to set in the early '60s, making it many years before the finale of "X-Men Origins: Wolverine", which was based around the Three-Mile Island accident of 1979.


    I have no idea how accurate this is, but it would be nice if they'd either fit it with the movie continuity (as far as possible given that the movie continuity is already contradictory), or simply say this is a reboot rather than having a kinda-sorta continuity thing going on.

    EDIT: That said, with two overrated but good X-Men movies and two that are awful, and given that the X-Men are my favorite superhero team/family, at this point I'll be happy with just a good movie regardless of continuity issues.
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Unless they make her ageless for reason (and by some unknown means) or clone her then there's no way this Emma can be the same as the one from Wolverine, even ignoring casting issues. Perhaps they'll go the route of this being Wolverine Emma's mother or some such.
  24. Yodaminch Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    That is only one continuity issue they need to overcome. Another one is jean and scott's intros in last stand and wolverine where Xavier was walking. Singer mentioned we'll see how Xavier gets in the chair. With no Jean and no Scott and the time the movie is set, those scenes are already screwed up.
  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10