You Will Destroy All For Which They Have Fought And Suffered

"I've got to go to them."

"Decide you must, how to serve them best. If you leave now, help them you could, but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered."

*Luke nods in begrudging acceptance*

What does Yoda mean by this? At first I thought he meant that if Luke ends his training now, he'll turn to the Dark Side. In that context, the dialogue does make sense, but Luke would never just nod. He'd vehemently disagree.

 

You are right.

Also, he realizes that Yoda might be right. That is why he stays.

 

I always interpreted it differently...


Han and Leia are fighting and struggling to survive. Their battle means something to them. They have a huge stake in it. If Luke suddenly shows up, he'd ruin their victory over their captors, destroying all that they have fought and suffered for.

Does that make sense?

 

I used to have my thoughs about this, but right now whenever I hear this line I think more about Yoda and his failure in the duel with Dooku in AOTC then I do Luke and his current situation.

 

Actually I think Yoda saved Obi and Ani's butts.

 

Actually I think Yoda saved Obi and Ani's butts.

Yes he did but in doing so he let Dooku escape and the Clone Wars were the result. If he had sacrificed Obi-Wan and Anakin and stopped Dooku, the wars wouldn't of happened (and the future Darth Vader would have died), so he might view it as a failure and not want Luke to make the same mistake he did.

 

"If you choose the quick and easy path as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil."

I beleive Yoda was referring to Anakin embracing the dark side to save Padme and fearing Luke will make the same mistake in saving Han and Leia.

 

I think that now all 6 films are complete, the comment can be taken both ways: either Yoda is making a direct correlation between Anakin/Padme and Luke/Han & Leia or Yoda is giving a general warning - which of course could be used in the latter. Having seen ESB so many times prior to the PT, I interpret the scene as Yoda giving Luke the warning, most likely without referencing past events.

 

Yoda believes that letting Dooku escape allowed the Clone Wars to occur, but didn't Sidious still have everything all set up? Yes, he had to find another apprentice, but if Anakin (the Chosen One) had died on Geonosis, who would have stopped him?

What Yoda doesn't yet realize is that he made the right choice by saving his friends.

Now a different question is whether Yoda sees the parallel between Anakin trying to save Padmé (and thus turning to the dark side) and Luke wanting to save Han and Leia.

 

Yes, the speech Yoda gives Luke when the X-Wing is being prepped is definitely a relation to Anakin.

But "Help them you could, but you will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered" confuses me.

Yoda is basically saying "If you go, you might be able to save them. But the Rebellion will be ruined." That makes no sense.

 

Your first post was right on the money. I think that Luke just nods because he knows Yoda's opinions already and no longer wishes to argue with him. He also wants Yoda to know that he is really listening to what he says not just yelling back like a rebellious teenager. He is saying "I know what the risks are and I am going anyway."

What Yoda means by losing all that Luke's friends have fought for is that the only way to end the empire is for the Emperor and Vader to be defeated, and Yoda and Kenobi believe this can only be accomplished by a fully trained Jedi, which Luke is not yet. They do not believe a rebellion alone can defeat the empire.

The exchange which is really kind of funny in this scene is the last one, this is how I imagine it if the cameras had kept rolling.

Kenobi: That boy is our last hope.
Yoda: No, there is another.
Kenobi: Who do you think he's going rescue?
Yoda: Doh!

 

I still haven't heard a satisfactory answer.

HOW would the Rebellion be destroyed by Luke saving Han and Leia?

Yes, yes, the danger is Lukes temptation by the Dark Side. But that isn't what Yoda is talking about.

 

No, you are missing the point. Han, Leia and the rebels have fought and suffered to defeat Palpatine and his Empire. Yoda is saying that the only way to defeat Palpatine is with a fully trained Jedi (one of the Chosen One's offspring). Hence, even though most of them don't know it, they are fighting and suffering to allow Luke to become trained as a Jedi, so that one way or another, the prophecy can be fulfilled.

In case you hadn't noticed, Obi-Wan and Yoda are playing their cards pretty close to the vest when it comes to giving Luke information about the events of the PT, so Yoda is basically summing up the goal set in the Tantive IV in ROTS.

 

I completely understand what you're saying.

HOWEVER, in Luke's mind, here's what will go down: Fly to Bespin, rescue Han and Leia, come back to Dagobah. It would never enter Luke's mind for a second that there is even a slight possibility of joining Vader.

So when Yoda says "You will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered.", why wouldn't Luke say he'd come back to finish his training?

Yes, he and Luke have this conversation later, it just seems like Luke would assure Yoda in this scene.

 

well... if your looking at the point of luke going to the dark side... he does... in dark empire 1-2...

but still it confuses me

 

Another confusing exchange involving Yoda takes place while Lukes X-Wing is lifting off. Obi-Wan says to Yoda, "That boy is our last hope..." To which Yoda replies, "No, there is another..." The confusion being more centered on Obi-Wan's comment than Yoda's.

Either Obiwan forgot all about Leia, (doubtful) or ol' GL hadn't decided that who that 'another' was yet... discuss...

 

Yeah. I always thought that in ROTS, Luke would be born first, Obi would take the boy and leave immediately. Then, Leia would be born, witnessed only by Yoda and Bail.

If Yoda had let Obi and Anakin die to get Dooku, the Clone Wars would not have been prevented, but Sidious's plans would have been delayed a lot. He would have had to find a new apprentice.

 

It's not just him turning to the darkside. Vader could've kidnapped him; he came pretty close to doing it. Vader could've killed him; again, pretty close. Vader could've crippled him; again, partly true and pretty close. Luke could've brought the others in even more danger; instead of escaping, they have to go back because Leia senses Luke - so again, pretty close.

There are so many scenario's in which Luke going to Bespin wouldn't help anyone, and outside of him learning the truth about his father; it didn't.

Whereas had he stayed with Yoda, nothing could've happened to him. He wouldn't be traumatized by his encounter with Vader, he would still have both hands, he'd be trained more further and fully in the Jedi ways etc etc. Basically, Luke staying would've helped the Rebellion far more then Luke leaving; he was fortunate that events turned out the way they did, as it is.

- O_F

 

Both Yoda and Ben know that the only way to defeat the Empire is through Luke. When Yoda says "you will ruin what they have fought and suffered for", he is referring to their struggle to bide time until Luke is a fully trained Jedi. Even though Leia and Han don't know it they would not be able to defeat the Empire unless they have the help of the Jedi.

Jag29

 

Does the possibility that he'll be killed not seem obvious? Since the PT it seems like the SW universe is becoming the Skywalker family saga but in ESB the Emperor is the guy Yoda and Obi Wan know will destroy Luke, if by some miracle Vader were to fail. They are not particularly concerned with Luke's "personal journey" at this point for Luke's sake, they're concerned about the fate of the galaxy. Luke is acting recklessly enough by leaving, what do you want to hear, "I'll beat Vader, you'll see! I'll rescue my friends and you'll be wrong Yoda, you turd!" The nodding instead of arguing back is showing some of the character's arc from whiny brat in ANH to Jedi in ROTJ. He considers what Yoda says before he responds...like a grown up.

 

When Luke senses the future harm to come to Han and Leia, Yoda likely can see this immediately for what it is - a trap.

Luke sees only the harm to his friends and is vexed cause he thinks of loyalty to them and acting on it.

Yoda is doing the 'big picture' view and trying to explain that the trap will work if Luke does act on the premonitions.

Even Obi-Wan tries to explain in his own way as Luke prepares to leave.

Yoda and Obi-Wan knew that Luke overcoming the Emperor and Vader was the key to lasting victory and I doubt they were as concerned with Han and Leia or the Rebellion.

This goes to what we see in ROTJ where Vader realises sacrificing himself as his way to the light side - Luke could remain out of danger of the dark side by sacrificing Han and Leia.

Though Luke did come back to Yoda and was not turned by Vader,he took a big risk in what he did and Yoda points out that going to Bespin resulted in them saving him.

 

But if Luke had stayed with Yoda, he will never know the truth about Darth Vader being his father since neither Yoda nor Obi-wan plan on telling him anytime soon, Han Solo would still be frozen in carbonite and be in Jabba the Hutt's custody, Leia and Chewie would've remained in Vader's custody, Lando will have no opportunities to free any one of them as long as Vader is watching his every move, and the Rebels will have no power to topple the Sith Empire so having Luke going to Bespin DID in fact help everyone including himself.

 

"Through the Force, things you will see, other places; The future, the past, old friends long gone."

The Jedi's ability to farsee into the future is a double edged blade. When ones afraid of (what Shimi Skywalker would call) 'the change' into the future, one sometimes does rash things in an attempt to prevent it.

Taking TPM & ROTS into consideration, its obvious that Anakin's mistakes was based on this. Trying to alter what must be.

So;

For Yoda to say;

"If you leave now, help them you could, but; You will destroy all for which they have fought and suffered..."

Would suggest that by using the Force to alter the future, what MUST BE, you risk destorying not only your own destiny, but the others as well.

The entire saga is about WARS, wars where the forces of light and darkness are locked in motral combat.

Han and Leia are MEANT to fight this darkness at Bespin, face their destiny and suffer along the way.

For Skywalker to leave, and attempt to alter the future that must be, he risks destroying their destined futures.

If that were to happen then the future would be forever changed, and the dark side would have won once more.

It also suggests that if Luke is lost to the Emperor that way Vader was, then the previous stuggles of Han and Leia were for nothing.

 

Instead of looking at Yoda's rescuing Obi Wan and Anakin as a parallel to his own line, what about Padme in ep1? By returning to Naboo, she indirectly sets in motion a series of events including:

-Qui Gon's Death
-Obi Wan becomming Anakin's Master

And most importantly:

-Palpatine discovering Anakin.

Talk about destroying all they have fought and suffered for!

J

 

The "other" was in reference to Luke's REAL twin sister (not Leia), who was to be the focus of EP 7, 8 and 9.

However, once Lucas decided that he didn't want to dedicate another 10 years of his life to star wars, he decided to make Leia the sister to tie up that loose end.