PT Your Least Favorite Scene from the Prequels

Okay, I know this is meant to be a "negative" thread full of the occasionally-wistful what-if and, mainly, grousing, but I really wanted to riff on a few comments I've seen on this last page. Sorry for dumping a big wall of text loudly into the thread. I'll go away and think about what I've done.

Maybe you have -- but maybe you've got such a great imagination to begin with (a positive, I'd say).

I'll tell you what I like, though...

Some of the more subtle symbolism flowing through those scenes.

Like the silver/chrome objects carefully placed into several of those scenes: the picnic box in the meadow scene, the cutlery in the dinner scene, the chalices in the fireplace scene, and the fact the lovers ride a sleek chrome starship in transit to both Tatooine and Geonosis. This kinda stuff can be sublimely beautiful if you let it.

I wouldn't want to lose that droid factory sequence for anything. It's so visually inspired (to me). And, in terms of a basic symbolic meaning, it can be said to represent the ultimate failure of democracy and balanced social transactions that might otherwise give us nice family dinners and picnics in bright meadows. For my money, it says something important about the mechanization of the human soul in a world plunging head-first into war: a world where life is already cheap. As a tonal contrast with the sleek, clean, antiseptic world of Kamino, it's also another one of GL's counter-rhymes that shows the earlier enclave for what it is: sleek, yes, clean, yes, antiseptic, yes, but also (morally) grimy, fetid, crude, clumsy, and brutish. AOTC sizzles with resonances like this.

The droid factory sequence is also noteworthy, for me, in beginning immediately with a fall. Usually, even if an action scene in Star Wars begins with a fall (well, how about 'dem opening pan-downs? except in AOTC's case, interestingly), the fall itself isn't quite so rapid a trip-wire. Here, BOOM, Padme falls, and we're right into it: no fuss, no muss. Equally, three of our four leads -- all the speaking ones (or those with "intelligible" speech; make of that what you will) -- quickly founder and come undone here. Only Artoo is able to remain free of the factory's Protean nature and do anything good (by literally flying above the mayhem which eats up the other characters in minutes). Lucas himself has also said that film-making is like "a controlled nightmare" (sentiments also echoed by Stanley Kubrick: Lucas' "high art"/"perfectionist" clone) and the droid factory sequence is very nearly a literal representation of this. Anakin reminds Obi-Wan in their first scene together that it was he, Obi-Wan, that "fell into" a "nightmare" and that he, Anakin, rescued him. This time, it is kind of reversed. Anakin comes to Geonosis to rescue Obi-Wan (well, actually, to accompany Padme, who is interceding in the rescue of Obi-Wan on Anakin's behalf -- ah, the wonderful twists and turns of the prequel storyline), but he's the one who falls into the "nightmare" happening in the bowels of Geonosis: a nightmare which Obi-Wan merely observed from above with a curious, disapproving glance (a rhyme, of sorts, with Obi-Wan earlier watching Anakin and Zam tussling, from a safe distance in a speeder formerly piloted by Anakin (which Anakin first used to rescue Obi-Wan from a fall with)). It's quite rich.

I love the droid factory shenanigans: the design of the place, the different happenings, the construction of the visuals, even the weird, conveyor-belt (!) approach to the music (chopped-up pieces reinserted from elsewhere: a bricolage). It's so wonderfully abstract. It's designed to be a bit fanciful and OTT. If you've ever seen the "sound" featurette for AOTC (seen the sound -- don't tell me sound can't be seen ), you might be aware that Ben Burtt originally designed some great industrial music to accompany the visuals (percussion-based), but there's a brief scene of Lucas watching and pondering the wisdom of using it, with his worry being that he wasn't sure "it can withstand everything that's going on in there" -- a slightly glib way of describing what a dense, weird, visionary rush the sequence as a whole produces. So, a different approach was taken, which involved chopping up John Williams' score, and Ben Burtt's percussive approach found new life in the creature battle in the arena, instead. It's all some small measure of AOTC's uniqueness. One action sequence too many? Possibly. But I still see the droid factory sequence as an essential action vignette.

And poor Threepio, eh? Thrown around and discombobulated like Charlie Chaplin in "Modern Times". AOTC contains many references to the growth of industry and technology. The Jedi, for example, are essentially ancient mystics in a rapidly-changing world of clone armies and robot factions. There are strong hints of their philosophies being outpaced by a New World Order: the age we find ourselves in today, since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Episode I seems even more picturesque and idyllic when this motif is considered to be gaining traction in AOTC and the saga as a whole. But yeah, I like what happens to Threepio, and Anakin's fate within the factory kinda echoes Threepio's, or vice versa, since both are being "reconstructed" here (there are clear allusions to Anakin being remade as Darth Vader, too), even though their reconstruction appears temporary in both cases. Notice that Threepio is half turned into a battle droid and Anakin is partially turned into a *super* battle droid, briefly losing the arm that Dooku will chop off a little later. It's AOTC's answer to the podrace: an abstract, metaphorical tone poem for what lies ahead and what is implicit within the "now". Again, I love it loads.

How else, by the way, to explain Threepio's gags in the arena? He has to emerge in that harsh light of day from somewhere. Something has to contrive the head-swap scenario into being. I like that it's the factory sequence. Threepio, a little like Anakin, pays for wandering mindlessly from home. He is being slowly woken up to a wider world; though, ironically, he remembers nothing of it a short time later. This is rather, in essence, the cinematic depiction of a fugue -- a word with several curious meanings. Threepio loses his marbles and turns into a psycho soldier. Then he "forgets" all about it. Is this not also Anakin's journey into the underworld as Darth Vader? I enjoy how Threepio's violent adventure presages the bigger one that Anakin is already undertaking. Threepio can be righted by Artoo. And Anakin will be righted by Padme. But not before his femme fatale prods him to death and destruction. We see Artoo nudging Threepio at the edge of that corridor. He deliberately knocks Threepio in: a rhyme with ROTJ when Artoo sends Threepio careening over the edge of Jabba's sail barge (it's more subtle here). And when Threepio rises back up in his restored form? He regards what just happened as a "dream". Meanwhile, poor ol' Boba is clutching his dead father's helmet. One character survives a beheading, the other dies and leaves his son to a lonely fate. That droid factory -- definitely something creepy about it. It's like a haunted house. Obi-Wan was prowling the rest of Geonosis quite serenely. He snuck into quiet spaces. But the factory sequence is constantly going under its own steam and Threepio gets the brunt of its indifferent fury.

And how great that Lucas didn't originally have this sequence in the script. Instead, it's one of those sequences that arises from the implications of earlier scenes, once Lucas has had a chance to review them and started to build the larger weave of the full film. It's sort of his digital incunable, revealing a broad confidence in his own ability to think things up on the fly, shoot them with a minimum of fanfare, and really use all the tools at his disposal to create a lavish experience and push those tools to their limit, birthing something with an avant-garde quality: something that has never really existed before. There are even allusions to a printing press in the sequence itself (look at the stamping trope for example in the conveyor-belt obstacles that plague both Padme and Anakin respectively). Printing was really the first time that socially-transformative art and radical musings arrived en masse (even though very few people in even the richest parts of the civilized world could read before the 20th Century -- 20th Century Fox). Cinema, the mass-production of moving imagery (and sound), is really the modern incarnation of the printing press. And the Internet is sort of the consciousness that is emerging from these earlier -- and still-growing (and intertwining) -- forms.

Amazing, perhaps, how I see stuff like this in one silly action scene, but I do. I love the brilliant visual tabulation of the entire saga and the allegorical depth of the six films. AOTC really offers something special, though. The allegorical nature of the larger work feels heightened in this episode.

Weird. Those are all reasons I really get into it. ANH presents one "point of view", TPM another. Of course, there is also some rhyming going on there between TPM and ROTJ (look, for one, at how the TF reactor core collapses on itself after Anakin shoots it -- same sorta thing happens in ROTJ after Lando and Wedge ambush the DS II generator), and these interweavings are quite clever. And you have "primitive" natives battling for their land on a green setting, followed by cheering when they realize the fight is over after humans in flying machines destroy a central killing sphere. Is TPM's depiction of this more outlandish? Why, yes. But that's no knock on it for me. Anakin has such ability with the Force that his talents aren't truly earned or ever moulded as expertly as Yoda moulds his own. This "joke" victory helps to underscore that. It also suggests the ultimate hollowness of victory through violence (there's that "subversive" aspect of the prequels in full bloom). The Emperor really wins here, not the good guys. Strangely, he may achieve victory because creatures like Jar Jar and Anakin seem less encumbered in this early stage of the SW story. Their ability to use the Force is not as suppressed as in the other installments: they have more power than they realize. It becomes increasingly difficult for the Force to be summoned, to feel its free flow, in the other movies after the Emperor changes the wave of life. That's my take, anyway. TPM is simply depicting a different branch on a vast tree.

As for that dialogue you mention... I ADORE IT!!! Well, actually, it's the dialogue mentioned by Mr. K:

"Now, *this* is podracing".

It puts me in mind of Rene Magritte's famous composition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images

The end sequence is much more sly than it may seem.

There is an incongruity between Anakin declaring something so hamfistedly and the ugliness of the actual event: an event which doesn't truly sync with his dialogue.

I mean, what *is* podracing, if not podracing? Lucas playfully suggests we should reconsider the boundaries of art: the "phantom menace" of our own reasoning.

We are invited to consider and then to reconsider. Where does the circle end -- and where, for that matter, does it begin?

There is a lot of play on words in SW. It's an exploration of symmetry, the mechanism of meaning, and the boundaries of forms.

That dialogue is knowingly ridiculous on multiple planes. And the metaphor of podracing!! The word itself is a fantastic container. It's a cup that we must examine carefully and fill with our own meaning.

It's this kind of Lucasian dialectic that makes TPM a superior experience for me. But it wouldn't mean half as much without the others giving it such a propellant kick.



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Again, sorry for dribbling over this thread with gusher polemic.

It's just... I dunno. All that negativity makes me broody.

I've probably just been on IMDb too long.

 

Well, I like your post, Cryogenic. We can engage in intelligent discussion, even on a perceived 'basher' thread. There's nothing wrong with pointing out some of the flaws of the PT, or the OT for that matter. It's true the basis for most of these arguments are based on one's own opinion. No one can speak for the fanbase in a general sense, but it does raise good discussion about what one feels could have been better. I would also point out again, as I did in my Naboo space battle comments, that there are multiple reasons why one could feel a moment or scene didn't work. The dialogue actually read pretty well as written, very close to ANH in it's WW2-esque vernacular, but the delivery of some of these lines didn't mesh for me. I suppose that's part of the risk of making a film- such a collaborative art form- where there are so many different hands involved that the result might be better or worse than envisioned. The Naboo pilots are pretty good actors in their own right, I've seen them in other things. GL does a fairly good job at writing battle dialogue. But the scene entire, although thrilling the senses and functions it's job well to the story, didn't hit the same level of 'wow' for me that other space battles have. And that is entirely my own opinion and subjectivity- no doubt some cynicism and nostalgia for the OT in there somewhere too. It was still an enjoyable experience. And you are quite correct to observe the duality of the PT and OT events. It's a mirror of itself seen through a different perspective.

 

I agree

 

I watched AotC yesterday. My frustration was renewed, knowing what was cut and what should have been explored. Instead of Dooku's background, the mystery of the GAR's creation, and Sifo-Dyas' involvement, we got an unnecessary action sequence. I wish Lucas had had more confidence in the story and talent of his actors.

I appreciate that the chase reflects the nature vs. machine theme, but was already (and better) portrayed with Grievous vs. Kenobi. The chase was redundant, as was the planet-core sequence from TPM. "There's always a bigger fish." Oh, subtle!

 

I dislike any "romantic" scene with Padmé and Anakin in AOTC. A) Because Anakin was so socially stunted, his awkwardness almost killed me because I got so much secondhand embarrassment. B) It was extremely cliché, all of it. But I'm not one for sappy romance novel stuff. C) I wish there had been much more focus on why Padmé refused Anakin's advances, like in the book (focus on her career), than what was shown.

In TPM, my least favorite scene has to be the ones where Anakin was working on his podracer and then it focused on Jar Jar being a nitwit as usual. I don't mind Jar Jar in small doses. That scene actually isn't even hated by me. It's just not my favorite when compared with the others from the movie.

And finally, in ROTS, my least favorite scene has to be when Obi-Wan and Padmé are talking after the massacre of the Temple, because A) The dialogue given to both Ewan and Natalie was kinda really crappy, B) Padmé goes from previously being my favorite female character who is strong to the typical damsel in distress when they could've had her being distraught about her husband while still keeping her previous characterization, and C) Obi-Wan's characterization left a bit to be desired, with regards to how deeply Anakin's betrayal hurt him. It wasn't very well shown through the dialogue or direction Ewan was given that Obi-Wan was even that upset. I've made excuses in the past that Obi-Wan tends to lock away his emotions while he still has tasks to carry out, and then either buries them in an unhealthy way or releases them into the Force, but I don't know. I guess Matthew Stover's characterization of both Anakin and Obi-Wan, as well as Padmé, spoiled me so now the movie itself has lost some of its luster.

 

No message

 

I just watched AOTC last night again so the Anakin/ Padme romance is fresh in my mind. I've really got to say that those scenes disturb me and creep me out. Anakin doesn't come off as a nervous young man metting a long lost love- he comes off as an obsessive stalker and a sexual predator. I totally get that Anakin shouldn't be perfect- he has to have some unhealthy obsessions and attachments that help lead to his downfall, but watching it again i'm just shocked that we're supposed to believe Padme so quickly gives into Anakin or falls in love with him. I like Anakain in Clone Wars and Revenge of the Sith, but almost everything he says is grating to me in AOTC.

I'm admitting that bias. Yes, the scenes of their romance are very beautiful- the costuming, the set design, the lighting, Natalie Portman- but they just fall flat with me. I'd honestly rather watch them with no dialogue and just the film's score. Listening to the dialogue again- yes, it sounds awkward, but I feel the right actor could have pulled it off and made it sound more poetic- almost like Anakin had composed it advance as he'd both contemplated and fantasized about this encounter with Padme for years and was "manipulating her", although he wouldn't call it that.

 

I think that my least favorite scene was the first scene with General Grievous in ROTS. To me I just think you could have been more impressive. He looked like a monster, he moved like a monster. His cough though it shot the whole scene down for me. I just think my idea of what he should have been like was without a chest cold.

 

Obsessed? Absolutely. Creepy stalker? I don't think so. Name me any scene where he tells him to back off and he doesn't do it. If anything, Han is more stalk-ish and manipulative than Anakin.

I do think the movie should have focused more on Padem's POV. After all, we already know what Anakin wants. She's the one who's hesitating and should decide whether to reciprocate his feeling or not.

 

I always cringe when Anakin says "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!"

 

I can name a scene. You know where she's packing in her apartment and getting ready to leave, and she tells him to stop looking at her like that because it makes her uncomfortable? He doesn't quit, he just spits out the words "sorry, m'lady" and keeps staring at her like a creep. And then her facial expressions and words in other scenes repeatedly tell him to back off with the advances because she would rather focus on her career instead of having a boyfriend. She doesn't blatantly tell him the words "back off," but I didn't think it was necessary judging by what she tells him instead. I'm not saying Han can't be argued as being a creep, just that Anakin is also a creep.

 

I think it's more of when Anakin's a creeper, he's creepy. When Han is a creeper, he's just plain funny because of how obvious he makes it. It's the difference between a peeping tom and a pervy friend.

 

He also talks about watching her on the monitors. Yes, I know he's her security, but still it just comes off weird. Especially when she has to tell him to stop looking at her a certain way and such.

 

It's hard not to look at the person you love and don't they talk in that scene anyway? It's not as if he's cornering her in some passages and pushing her to admit her feelings while not revealing his own. Also, Padme is the one who's sending mixed messages all the time. If I wasn't interested in a man, I wouldn't wear revealing dresses when I'm alone with him. After they lay it out in the open Anakin doesn't bring it up again until Padme admits her love first.

It's not clear from the movie if Padme takes career over family. What she has objection to is "living a lie".

 

I would like to endorse this opinion.

 

I think they should digitally insert Jake Lloyd into AOTC.

 

Anakin in ROTS - You are, like*, so beautiful...


*the 'like' is silent, but let's face it, we all heard it

 

Fireplace scene, anything on the Naboo retreat, some Republica-500 scenes, etc.

 

I really hated that Lucas caved into fan pressure over Jar Jar Binks, making him so stupid in Episode II that he falls for Palpatine's trick regarding executive powers. Jar Jar was clumsy in Episode I, but not brain-dead. It really felt like a cop-out to me, especially after so many years of Lucas constantly stressing "his vision" being paramount.

Another thing is the verbal exchange on Mustafar before the epic lightsaber fight. Anakin twists the words of Christ, but Obi-Wan's response doesn't make any sense. Saying "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is an absolute statement in itself.

 

Either "I hate sand" or "So love has blinded you?" Those scenes drive me batty.

 

I love all 6 films, but of the PT, I hated Anakin blowing up the trade federation ship. They should have let someone else do it. Porkins uncle or someone. Most of C 3POs lines in AOTC. I dont like how easily Palpatine takes out well trained Jedi. I had no issue with Jar Jar, I found Chewy way more annoying. Some of the Anakin Padme scenes were a lil uncomfy, but people forget Anakin was still a teenager, a teenager with no social experience with women. He played an annoying teenager, that annoyed most of the viewers. Mission complete. For the record his son is just as annoying. I think Watto needed more camera time and maybe should have escorted Anakin to the Lars homestead.

 

Imagine a scene where 3po n r2 walk in a desert looking for an old Jedi, only to be captured 1 at a time then sold to moisture farmers......very boring stretch of film.

 

Good lord these are long posts. Anyways I agree that any scenes with Anakin and Padme together. Some of the worse chemistry and dialogue I have ever witnessed in a film. Crazy because Portman is a fantastic actress. Sadly Jar-Jar is not the worst thing in the films

 

Really? I can't find it anywhere...

 

What I refer to as "The Wacky Misadventures of Jar-Jar" during the Battle for Naboo. Honestly, I'm okay with him in most of TPM, ranging from scenes that get a chuckle to just kind of groaning and moving on, but that sequence was too much for me. Any scene with Anakin talking about how powerful he is, without really showing it, the Anakin/Padme romance, Padme dying because she lost the will to live.