Your movie STINKS and mine RULES!

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by obhavekenobi78, Aug 9, 2002.

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  1. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    and also from all those fans and non-fans that just plain dont like AOTC.

    Which make up a very small minority opinion.
  2. DrEvazan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 4
  3. sdj Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2002
    star 4
    I like that Evil Ash made an appearance in FotR. Gimme some sugar baby...
  4. cratylus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2001
    star 2
    After the massive smear campaign against The Phantom Menace, it is understandable that we Star Wars fans are a little touchy about the new film being bashed. Attack of the Clones is a great Star Wars movie. We can understand the criticism of the last one; to some extent it may even have been deserved.

    But this time around it is just a bandwagon of people trying top prove that they are too mature, or too savvy to be taken in by the lure of the Star Wars name. There are people i met who have planned since 1999 not to see this one, and have even argued based on critic's reviews that i am wrong to like the movie, though I have seen it and enjoyed it on many levels. I am talking about people who have not even seen the film here, just read articles about it.

    If you read the articles by the the critics, you may notice a trend in the negative ones. They are full of mistakes about the plot. They tend to revel in seething hatred for star wars and even for its fans. And every one of them says "I know i will get mean letters for being the only one smart enough to hate this film but..."

    Yeah, I am pretty touchy on it because it is more than just a movie for me. People in California basically called me a racist for liking The Phantom Menace, all because of an article in the L.A. Times.

    It irritates me that a bunch of follower types jump on a bandwagon and proceed to call me a blind follower for liking a @#$% movie. No one can just say they don't like it; they always have to be caustic or confrontational.

    So those are the reasons I am touchy. The other films? Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring was awesome. Wonderful. Wore down by the seventh viewing but overall hit the spot, and was as true to the books as it could be in 3 hours.

    Spider-Man? Awesome fun, and fun for almost all ages. But it was very very simple. It was full of bright colors, a nice change. I only saw it twice. But I recommended it to everyone really.

    THe Matrix... this is no longer a new film you know... Highly overrated. Too overrated. Laughably overrated. But good, solid fun. A shoo-in for repeat viewing.


    The thing is that only The Lord of the Rings is really in the same genre as star wars... total fantasy. The other two are really more close to home and in the action movie genre.

    Really it is possible to like them all. I do. But I like them in different ways and to different degrees.

    And Rex Reed can go to Heck.
  5. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I agree cratylus. I'm sure there are some people with valid reasons for hating AOTC, but the impression I got from a lot of critics and fans who disliked the film is that, after getting burned by TPM, they didn't want to enjoy anything Lucas offered them next, even if it was a vastly superior film like AOTC. That's why you get comments like "AOTC was 1000 times better than TPM, but that still doesn't make it a good film". :)

    We'll never know for sure, of course, but it'd be interesting to see what would have happened if AOTC had been Episode I. Would the backlash have been bigger or smaller? My guess is much smaller.
  6. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Well, as far as the critics and PM and AotC are concerned:

    I find it hard to swallow that "Gladiator" can be highly acclaimed, but the two afore mentioned Star Wars films are picked apart. The way I look at it is simple.

    If you were to watch a pole vaulter set up at 50 feet and actually get over, you would be completely amazed. Now the next time if that same vaulter only set up at say 40 feet, you would have people who would see the jump as inferior, even though no one else could make a height like that. I know that a height like that would be impossible, but can you see what I mean?
  7. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5

    What about people who like TPM and hate AOTC?
  8. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    What about them? They are entitled to their own opinion, right?
  9. AL Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1998
    star 5
  10. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    No need for thanks AL. Intolerance has always been out of fashion.

    BTW, I liked both films, but I never had a problem with PM. I watch it everytime I work out, it really makes the time fly. No matter where I start in, I always find it entertaining. Heck, I even found Jar-Jar to be funny in a quirky sort of way. Call me stupid, but I really thought that George knew what he was doing. We are going to get three new SW movies ranging from bright and "happy" to dark and tragic. I think that when we finally see the completion, we will all understand why PM was neccessary.

    But, of course this is just all MY opinion. Take it or leave it.
  11. AttackoftheCorn Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 2
    Al - being that you are probably the only person that I 'know' who liked TPM and didn't like AOTC, I'd be very interested to know your views on this.

    ObihaveKenobi - Good call on Gladiator. I thought it was a decent action movie. If I were to pick apart that movie to the degree that Star Wars is dissected, all that would be left is a decent performance by Russell, and not much else. The best second of Gladiator is worse than the worst second of a Star Wars film. And yet it wins best picture? They must be the creators of Hi and Lois because they are making me laugh.

  12. Daniel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 1999
    star 1
    Darth_G,

    Would Blade Runner have been a better movie if, say, the Roy Batty character were played by Don Knotts, the orchestral musical score were replaced by a single banjo, and they added a laugh track?

    I've thought about this one, also, truth be told, I (I, me, myself, I) don't think "Blade Runner" is all that great, but I understand your point. If you and I find agreement about certain aspects of what makes a good movie, do we become "a standard" or are we just a couple of buds who have similar tastes??? Or if 100 snooty film scholars get together and 90 of them vote Blade Runner the greatest Sci-Fi film ever made (a SW geek like myself would say they are wrong :) , anyhow) are the 90 "a standard" or are they again just a bunch of buds who have similar tastes??? What about the other 10, are they wrong???

    Even you said you could not "prove" Dragon Tales is better then The Seven Samari (I really need to see this movie BTW, maybe this weekend). In regards to your second paragraph (responding to D_Homer) I say all that experience only proves that you are able to figure out what you like and dislike.

    As for Blade Runner, movies that I (I, me, myself, I) consider great follow four general rules: 1) Do I feel the story good or interesting; 2) Do I feel the movie visually stunning; 3) Do I feel (see that I used the word "feel", which implies "subjectivity") the actors portray the characters believably; and 4) Do I feel action sequences grab me / thrill me. I think it's 4 that makes ME (me, myself, I, me) think Blade Runner is only okay, because in every other category Blade Runner is top notch.

    Here's another example of movie subjectivity (I've got the flame retardant suit on for this), I did not like the movie?drum roll?"Pulp Fiction". As hailed as this movie is I think I just committed cinematic blaspheme. I admit 2 things though, I've only seen PF once and I admit (unlike some who don't like TPM) "I didn't get it". I mean people rag on the dialog of AOTC, but with Pulp Fiction?

    "They call a Quarter Pounder w/ Cheese in Europe a 'Royal w/ Cheese'"

    Oh how engaging, oh how intelligent, Pulp Fiction is the greatest movie ever made

    "I have pierced genitalia"

    Oh how engaging, oh how intelligent, Pulp Fiction is the greatest movie ever made

    "Your father hid his watch up his butt"

    Oh how engaging, oh how intelligent, Pulp Fiction is the greatest movie ever made

    Okay, how about the gay red-necks on dope and leather?

    Oh how engaging, oh how intelligent, Pulp Fiction is the greatest movie ever made

    Like I said, I admit "I didn't get it". As with all things there are a few exceptions to the rules above and I (I, me, myself, I) found "Rudy" (which I own) a much better movie. Like I said I've seen PF only once, but I found the supposedly true story of "Rudy" so inspiring that I've seen it seen several times, but I'm also willing to admit I am weird like that.
  13. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Is it not possible to love FOTR and AOTC at the same time? Heaven forfend!

    Of course it is. From what I can tell, the AOTC defenders are simply sick of the FOTR fanboys coming in and trashing TPM/AOTC while going on and on about how great FOTR is and how it's the movie TPM/AOTC should have been, and saying that (cue heavenly choirs of angels) Peter Jackson should take over Episode III because he has more talent in his nose hair than Lucas has in his entire body.

    If you hate the PT and think FOTR was all that and a truckload of chips, why are you wasting your time on a SW forum? I've yet to see an answer to this question--just more ducking and dodging.
  14. Daniel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 1999
    star 1
    Yeah, what Shelley said... :)
  15. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Shelley,

    "If you hate the PT and think FOTR was all that and a truckload of chips, why are you wasting your time on a SW forum?"

    Well, I don't think anyone that comes here to sincerely discuss AotC hates the PT. Yes, there are people here who seem to post only negative aspects of AotC, but that does not mean that they hate the film. I personally can find fault in aspects of AotC, but I don't think I have ever seen a movie that has been shot and produced to perfection. Look, you just have to understand that people have differences of opinions and they have the same right to express them as you or I have. If they didn't show up here and express the negative aspects of their opinions what would you be doing here? Do you really want a message board full of posters who just pat GL on the back for making the end-all-be-all of motion pictures? In order to have discussion and debate there has to be opposing view points, otherwise all that you have is a very boring and sterile board.

    No ducking, no dodging. You have a very strong positive experience and others are entitled to have the opposing view. They also are entitled to express that view just like you are.

  16. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Well, I don't think anyone that comes here to sincerely discuss AotC hates the PT. Yes, there are people here who seem to post only negative aspects of AotC, but that does not mean that they hate the film.

    AL sincerely hates AOTC and has said so. Several others have said that they think the PT sucks. Believe it or not, there are several people who sincerely hate AOTC and still post on this forum.
  17. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Sure, but those people are not here to "sincerely discuss" the film. So, just ignore them. They just want to stir it up and if you let them they are going to keep coming back for more.

    As far as the above mentioned "types" of people, I would agree that they are wasting their time coming here.
  18. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I guess there's a difference between "sincerely discuss" and "sincerely bash." The primary reason I come here is not to discuss the good or bad in AOTC, but rather to speculate about the actual movie itself (i.e. hidden meanings, homages, consequences of a character's action...).
  19. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    There is a HUGE difference. I think it becomes obvious who is here to discuss aspects of the film and who is here to stir it up. Check out my new icon, it looks like I am taking one!

    ;)
  20. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    Well, I don't think anyone that comes here to sincerely discuss AotC hates the PT.

    Actually, there are many of them.

    Yes, there are people here who seem to post only negative aspects of AotC, but that does not mean that they hate the film.

    Actually, many of them have said that they could find nothing good about the PT movies, and that people who like them are in denial hecause the movies suck.

    I personally can find fault in aspects of AotC, but I don't think I have ever seen a movie that has been shot and produced to perfection.

    Tell that to the FOTR gushers who would give a vital organ for the privilege of standing downwind from Peter Jackson after he's farted.

    Look, you just have to understand that people have differences of opinions and they have the same right to express them as you or I have. If they didn't show up here and express the negative aspects of their opinions what would you be doing here?

    Discussing AOTC's finer points with people who may or may not agree, but who still share my liking for AOTC.

    Do you really want a message board full of posters who just pat GL on the back for making the end-all-be-all of motion pictures?

    It is not like there are two choices: a board full of people who trash GL and the PT nonstop, and a board full of people who do nothing but gush over GL and the PT. There are a lot of choices in between.

    What I am sick of is people coming here for the sole purpose of insulting GL and bashing the PT, and pumping up Peter Jackson and LOTR. This is not a LOTR board. It is a SW board. It is for fans of SW to discuss SW, not for fans of LOTR to come in and gloat about their movie supposedly being better. I do not go to LOTR boards and say how much better I think the PT is than FOTR. I'd appreciate LOTR fans showing the same courtesy.

    In order to have discussion and debate there has to be opposing view points, otherwise all that you have is a very boring and sterile board.

    And bashers are not necessary to provide opposing viewpoints. Just because people like the PT in general, does not mean that their conversations are boring, nor does it mean they are all of one mind and say nothing but, "Man, the PT rewled." "Yeah, I know, it really rewled." all day long.

    I visit an Anakin Skywalker board, and people generally agree about him being a good character, but they disagree about many of the finer points. Conversations are quite lively without bashers coming in and saying, "Anakin sucks!"
  21. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Shelley,

    "It is not like there are two choices: a board full of people who trash GL and the PT nonstop, and a board full of people who do nothing but gush over GL and the PT. There are a lot of choices in between. "

    Exactly, but you focus only on the "trash". There are literally hundreds of posts in here that have absolutley nothing to do with LotR. If you would like to avoid topics that entice posters to compare AotC and Lotr or their respective elements you are free to do so. We all see that you possess the intelligence to discern what is and what is not going to be a forum for "bashers". So, just avoid it. You must realize that opinions have been welcomed here, it's a public forum. We have no control over what's said here (beside the rules established by the Mods). If somebody tells me that LotR sucked the big one, then that's their opinion. If they want to debate the details of the film with me, that's fine too. I welcome it and I don't try to fight every single person that has a clearly negative spin on the film and is just coming here to be an "you fill in the blank". So, let's just agree that we can't control what happens here in these forums and agree that we are intelligent enough to know what is sincere discussion and what is blatent "gushing/bashing" and dismiss it for what it is, childish blathering. Don't you agree.

    BTW,
    I am also a fan so I know how easy it is to get sucked into defending something that you enjoy so much. I am also a fan of LotR and to me you are the same as an AotC basher, which you will tell me is fine because you are in a Star Wars forum, but really what you are doing is insighting people who like both films to respond to your attacks (read your post above something about a fart, which by the way could easily be turned around on you inserting GL as a crappy counterpoint)and therefore continuing this "dialog" further. Sorry to be so long-winded.

  22. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Tell that to the FOTR gushers who would give a vital organ for the privilege of standing downwind from Peter Jackson after he's farted.

    [face_laugh]
  23. Only_2 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 3
    Obihave..

    I agree with respect to Shelly's comments about Peter Jackson's gas bubbles, but is there really a need for FOTR fans to post ad nauseum about how fantastic FOTR is on a Star Wars forum?

    I mean it's not the people like yourself who think the two coexist nicely we have a problem with. It's the ones who stop at nothing to trump George Lucas' accomplishments with what Peter Jackson did with someone else's idea. FOTR was well produced, but honestly if Lucas hadn't laid the groundwork for special effects movies and sci-fi fantasy that can be taken seriously some 25 years ago, Peter Jackson's film aspirations would be nothing but a fart in the wind, so to speak...
  24. obhavekenobi78 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    Why do you feel that you have to worry about those folks? Just let it go. They will counter everyone of your posts whether they are right or not, it's never ending.

    It's kind of like that old Daffy/Bugs cartoon.

    "Rabbit season!"
    "Duck season."
    "Rabbit season!"
    "Duck season."
    "Rabbit season!"
    "Duck season."
    "Rabbit season!"
    "Duck season."
    ...and on and on and on. Bueller.....Bueller.
  25. Shelley Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 5
    I am also a fan of LotR and to me you are the same as an AotC basher,

    How so? I'm not going to a LOTR forum and saying over and over how much FOTR sucked. (For the record, I don't think it sucked. I think it was about average.)

    which you will tell me is fine because you are in a Star Wars forum, but really what you are doing is insighting people who like both films to respond to your attacks (read your post above something about a fart, which by the way could easily be turned around on you inserting GL as a crappy counterpoint)

    Actually, I and others have been accused of being mindless GL worshippers who would sit there and drool if he presented us with two hours of blank film. Why? Because we had the temerity to defend him against vicious attacks on these boards.
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