ST Your predictions about the reception of the ST

No, I get that you don't mean me personally (although I could take exception to the labeling of those characters as being separate from "normal," as "freaks" and "social misfits," when in fact they're closer in spirit to who we really are than most of us care to admit). But regardless of whether one finds those characters to be caricatures or not, that show has between 18 and 19 million viewers each week, and each and every one of those millions of viewers is being reminded on a regular basis that there is a perception of the PT being known solely for its faults. THAT'S the point I'm trying to make. And we all know that it's not just that show; it's the prevailing narrative all over the place. As you say, any one of those examples can be written off as being selective and not representative of the truth, but there is indeed a cumulative effect to all of this in the culture, which has been building up over time, and we are and have been seeing that effect made manifest for several years now.

The only thing that will truly grind that perception into the dirt and keep it there permanently is if the ST is good enough to completely force the PT off the front page, culturally speaking. And I really do believe that it is possible - there have been little to no hints out of Disney/LFL that really give me cause to believe otherwise. As I've repeatedly stated on this forum, they've made a number of smart decisions and right moves that set me at ease for the present, and I am fully prepared - indeed, even excited - to give them the benefit of the doubt (though the films must then prove themselves to have been worthy of that consideration). I also believe that the majority of the people here on the forums with me would share that desire to give them the benefit of the doubt, regardless of their attitude towards the PT or even the OT. My hope is that the general public, who have nowhere near the investment, emotional or otherwise, that we have with the franchise, will find it in themselves to do the same when Episode VII comes - but I just cannot safely assume that to be the case at present.

 

ST Saves Star Wars is the safe bet.

It's a narrative, and like all narratives allows for both fiction and nonfiction.

 

I don't exclude myself from that group depicted in TBBT... perhaps more on the fringes than in the thick of it...

Re. the other point you made about a public perception. I think there's a danger that personal views are perceived as the reality for everyone - but clearly they are not (as evidenced here). I watch The Big Bang Theory and I'm struggling to think of a barbed comment or glib criticism of the PT - other than a couple of Jar Jar references... and that's fair game. I'd say there's far more reference to the absurdities and general 'crapness' of ST:TNG in that particular show... but no one is claiming that this is a manifestation of the general publics view of Star Trek. Indeed - classic Star Trek is more often that not derided. IMHO there's a risk of looking at windmills and seeing dragons (which isn't to state that I think for a second the prequels are universally loved). It will be interesting to see Ep VII's box office... as if the PT is universally disliked, Ep VII will struggle to hit the huge numbers. But I fully expect that not to be the case - some will welcome the ST as a chance for the brand to find redemption (your good self perhaps) and others will go because they enjoyed the prequels and want to revisit that universe.

 

Another thing that is prequel-related that might impact the reception of the ST - but this one potentially quite a positive - is not so much prequel fatigue as general looking-backwards fatigue. I'll explain: being a Star Wars enthusiast has involved a hell of a lot of looking backwards. That's been the case since 1983. Prior to that point, the release of Return of the Jedi, the focus of the saga was primarily forwards, on the OT characters and their adventures moving forward in time. ROTJ made it clear that our attention actually needed to be, and ought to be, backwards in time, on those characters who became the PT characters. The fact that the OT ended up pivoting us story-wise to look backwards for the real meat of the story, plus the vague but ever-present promise of getting prequel films someday, meant that fans spent sixteen years looking backwards in time even before they ever saw so much as a frame of the PT. Then add the PT years on top of that; now you've got twenty-two years. Then add the years of TCW; now you've got twenty-seven. That's actually staggering to think about: the Star Wars franchise has spent nearly thirty years, most of its life in fact, focused on the past.

That is ENTIRELY too much time focused on one period of the Saga, and it's done the Saga a disservice. Disney/LFL clearly understood this sense of fatigue was in the air, which is one more reason why they began quickly moving the focus away from the PT era. That ended up costing us, it's true - TCW was wonderful, triumphant even, and its loss is the Saga's loss - but by the time Episode VII comes to the screen I believe it will have been to the Saga's overall benefit. Save for the EU (which is now entirely up for grabs), no one's really bothered to ask what comes AFTER all this, to the point where looking forward again has become a novelty to be pursued. It's why I have issue with people who believe the ST is going to be just going right back to the OT, only with the OT characters older now, because that's just another form of looking backwards, only this time back to the OT instead of to the PT. In story terms, I really don't believe this is going to be a case of "what is old is new again;" rather a case of "what is NEW is new again."

 

Pfluegermeister . I love the PT era as much as the next guy but I am ready to move on. TCW should have been a Dark Times series instead. After 4 movies, 2 tv series' countless books and comics its time to move on.

 

Another fear of mine - minor fear - is that the ST is just gonna be OT v2.0. You know, a group of loveable characters going on an adventure and fighting a villain for three movies. I mean sure that's all fine and dandy and I'm sure no one would really complain (if it's good that is), but this is their opportunity to do something new with Star Wars. Remember you don't wanna stray too close to the OT's formula because you don't wanna risk drawing comparisons... cause no matter how good these new movies end up being that's always gonna be a losing battle.

One way would be to focus on a different type of hero's journey, a different type of sky walker. Luke's journey was one of self discovery and inner strength but it was also a story about the son and the father. Maybe the next story can have a different biblical influence. Maybe they could draw from Moses or something. The great leader, the great liberator.

Like I could picture the galaxy goin all crazy after the empire falls. Without anyone to crack the whip it's left a void for the powerful and the corrupt to seize power. Maybe there's a growing force that threatens the peace. Like this rich powerful ruler of a distant planet - a Pharaoh type - is operating outside of the republic and enforcing all sorts of bad stuff like slavery and whatnot and his influence keeps growing. So our heroes (led by Luke's kid I guess) have to take him down. Only when they get there...

.... DUN DUN DUN.... they discover he's a force user too.

The plot thickens.

Anyways no need to delve into any fanfic type stuff. Just thinkin out loud. I always saw biblical themes in Star Wars so I figured that would be the next natural place for them to go. Exodus.

 

Well I agree that it's time to move on from that specific timeframe... only so many stories to tell... but I'm not sure the powers that be nessersarily think of it that way - I'm sure it will be only a matter of time before we get Old Republic films. Also worth pointing out is that they are currently making Rebels which takes place in the past...

 

Yes, Rebels takes place during the time between the PT and the OT... which to me suggests that Disney and LFL these days are not actually trying to bury all references to the PT as some on both sides seem to think. Instead, I see it as intentional bridge building from The Clone Wars animated show through ROTS and now with Rebels through to ANH.

 

I think the bigger question, at this point, is this: what is or will be the reception of the IDEA of a sequel trilogy?

We know nothing about the movies so there isn't a point in knowing whether people will like it. I'm more interested in what fans-casual or die hard-think of the idea of a new trilogy.

 

Oh, I think that after more than a year to process the news, we've all done THAT little chestnut to death. There are indeed people here who aren't even sold on the very idea that there should be a Sequel Trilogy, for all manner of reasons. I'm just fine with the idea of an ST, and you'll probably find a heap of people who agree, but you'll also find those who think the ST, by its very existence, will ruin the Saga.

 

I can't believe that there are any fans here who trully don't want more Star Wars... regardless of wether we think they will be better, worse or same as the others...

 

I don't get it either.

 

That's the problem right there. They could very well be worse. It's like drawing a mustache on the Mona Lisa.

Look at the Matrix sequels. Obviously the first movie is a classic but now having seen the two that followed, you can't help but think the sequels tarnished it's legacy just a bit. In hindsight we were better off without them. Bottom line it always helps to go out on a high note.

It's not that we don't want more Star Wars movies, it's that we don't want more bad Star Wars movies. The name "Star Wars" carries not only a tremendous level of adoration but also a tremendous level of expectations.

You need to make sure these movies live up to the Star Wars name. You need to make sure these movies are worthy of the Star Wars name.

 

I think I said this on the ROTS forum back in the day... Star Wars needs to quit looking back. If they can do that there is a chance we will see a great reception. No more stories about Anakin. We knew he was Vader and that sucked. No surprises. I tried to watch TCW and quit after several seasons. Again, no surprises because it was trapped between AOTC and ROTS.

I think it's OK to go back to the Old Republic with the movies because it's not trapped by the OT. So please, give us a FORWARD looking trilogy that doesn't repeat the past.

 

Speak for yourself. I know a lot of people didn't like those sequels, but I much prefer The Matrix as a trilogy than a single film.

 

Hey more power to you. I'm glad you liked em. I wish I did too.

You think the sequels measured up to the original though?

 

Matrix is a bad comparison because they're all garbage. The first one is as unintentionally hilarious as the sequels.

 

You know, there's not one J.J. Abrams film that I really really like. The Star Trek films were good, I guess, but not great. The rest were forgettable. That being said, I can't wait to see what he meant when he said he wasn't a genuine Trek fan anyway, and what being a fan of Star Wars will translate to the new film when he begins direct. We'll see if he really gets Star Wars, because apparently the Trekkies all think he let them down. I think the Trekkies are wrong though, because if he did do anything to Star Trek, it was to breathe new life into a dead franchise that sorely needed to be fast paced and exciting.

 

I think they're far superior in many ways. I know there are others out there who feel as I do but it's still a pretty lonely place to be most of the time.

 

NOPE. Don't forget the OT Special Edition and its release in theaters. That alone was plenty to get people talking about Star Wars again.

Even so, you're probably right, the announcement of prequels really ushered in a new age of relevance for Star Wars. But now we're talking hype. And the actual films did not live up to the hype. Any prequel trilogy would have caused a huge buzz. Too bad the one we got is what we got.

THIS. Hopefully they recognize what is old, what is obvious, what is cliche, and what is played out, and give us something truly fresh, yet still Star Wars.

Sadly, after Into Darkness, I expect a shallow cash-in full of references, and that it will be received by the audience as such. I hope I'm wrong.

 

If it was about not wanting more bad Star Wars movies I would have given up with Return of the Jedi...

However, Star Wars at is worst is still better than the majority of modern blockbusters out there being consumed so readily... wether it's Iron Man, Star Trek, The Avengers, X-Men etc. etc. Star Wars beats them hands down IMHO. And as bad as I think JJ is, I think there's a good chance he'll deliver something on par with Return of the Jedi... and something I can perhaps like/enjoy - even if I can't love it.

 

lol

Right... i'd love to hear you actually back that up with anything remotely resembling an objective or artistically insightful argument. The thing is......you won't. Because you simply can't. No respectable scholar of film or anyone with a sophisticated artistic palate would call the original Matrix "Garbage". Gorgeous cinematography, a fine cast (the wachowski's somehow managed to get a decent performance out of Keanu which is a feat all to it's own), featuring one of the most iconic villains in the last 20 years, a fantastic score by the underrated Don Davis, innovative special effects (that many films since have aped, gratuitously), great fight choreography supplied by the incomparable Yuen Woo-Ping, a strong, lean, and compelling narrative littered with grand ideas and concepts in addition to rich and well defined characters. A near perfect, modern take on the classic "Hero's Journey" narrative structure. Not to mention thematically rich. A terrific blending of genres. A beautiful hodgepodge of Cyberpunk, Eastern Philosophy, Martial Arts, and Sci-Fi. A thought provoking film as well as a great actioner.

I have never come across a true, respectable lover of cinema who didn't love that film. I have no hesitation in saying that the original Matrix is absolutely the "Star Wars" of the last 20 years. Now the sequels, as mentioned in a prior post, leave a lot to be desired. Clunky dialogue, action for the sake of action with no discernible consequence, poor character development, convoluted, unfocused plots, and a narrative that relies on contrivances to propel the plot forward. (Hhhmmmm...sounds a bit like the Prequels, huh?) Now they do have their moments, but the bar that was set with the original makes them look cheap and lazy by comparison.

The (few) people I've encountered who deride the original matrix have offered nothing of substance to defend their position. They have all come across as immature, cinematically ignorant, myopic, contrarians who think the attire is g*y, Keanu is stupid, and the story "didn't make sense". That is literally the extent of it. Nobody with a modicum of artistic integrity would speak of ill of this masterpiece. As nobody would of A New Hope or Empire.

 

I probably shouldn't have even given the troll any attention but I just can't let unbridled, inflammatory ignorance go unpunished ;-)