ST Your predictions about the reception of the ST

Pretty obvious VII will be the biggest hit ever. I mean that first trailer alone will make the internet colapse alone.

 

No - I don't think 'Lucas making decisions on set' made Kershner redundant. I think Kershner brought a lot to TESB that you obviously do not. Do you honestly believe that Lucas told Kershner how to frame, light and position every single angle and shot in TESB? I don't...., but if he did then clearly Lucas is a bigger genius than I thought he was.

As for Harry Potter... seems to me those films are regarded quite highly, in terms of technical/artistic application (in relation to the genre)... so if you find them 'jarring', I think that's more down to your personal taste than it is to the actual artistic benefits of different directors bringing different things to the same source material. I think it's one of the reasons why both HP and Bond work as multi movie franchises... namely because they can shake up the style a bit.

 

I think that like the prequels people will claim they love them after they see them, then they won't be able to stop talking about how much they hated them every chance they get after seeing them 3 times in the theater and buying the DVD and BluRay.

Seriously though I don't care. I grew up with the OT and the fact that I think Revenge of the Sith is better than Return of the Jedi in many ways is blasphemy to many in my age group apparently. I think the only opinion that matters is your own, and if you like something you shouldn't have to apologize or justify it.

I understand that people have different tastes in movies, music, and other things than me but what I don't understand is others trying to get my tastes to align with theirs. That would make the world very boring. Personally I love that Star Wars feels so different from movie to movie while still feeling like home to me. I just want the new movies to be able to capture even a little of what the originals did for me as a kid and what the prequels could drag out of my jaded adult mind from time to time. I am just thrilled to be living in another cycle of movies to obsess over, good or bad!

 

Again though if you are looking for it you will find it. That is marketing to the interested audience.

That is a nostalgia plus for sure of course the ST won't have GL so that's a much bigger loss.

Very subjective matter that but history shows GL is a much more revered director and storyteller than JJ ever will be. Reviews are as irrelevant today as they have been for a long time see Transformers success or the failure of lots of movies that get great reviews.

That's selected fan stuff again interesting but of little impact.

As did the PT as many films have for a long time.

Much learned from GL.

The PT and TCW. The whole PT generation.

Doesn't explain LOTR or The Hobbit's sucess or Harry Potter or Batman or any other films based on books and comics where you know where it is leading storywise. If anything the pre-sell is a much better bet than something "new" new as opposed to "old" new. Besides that as the PT showed people may have known the final end (Anakin becomes Vader) but other than a few story points we really didn't know what was going to happen.

True but until the movies the vast majority paid no attention to it so it was around but it's also new.

You mean $500 - 600 million in the US and Canada alone? I highly doubt that. Over the last few years we have several films in the 1.1 to 1.3 billion range besides Avengers massive 1.5B.

Of the 18 films over 1B only Avatar, Titanic, Frozen, Jurassic Park and Alice in Wonderland are the only "new" films ie not sequels or part of series and even then there are circumstances where the story is known be it from history or books.

It could happen but I think 1B out of the gate for a movie not made by GL is a bit dubious sounding.

Then again with the trio plus major OT iconography maybe they can pull something off on the other hand if it's too much of a retread then those great reviews you talk about will not happen either because if it's that blatant a rehash then that will be looked down on as well.

If the PT was too different for some who couldn't take it not being similar enough then the ST will have the same thing happen if it's too similar.

 

I think the fact it's not made by George Lucas won't make any difference to most audiences, and in a lot of cases will actually be considered a cause for optimism.

 

History shows GL is a much more revered director than Abrams will ever be??

 

Yes.

Did I miss some massive all time hits and franchises that JJ created somewhere?

You don't think that the fact that Avatar was done by Cameron or Titanic before that might have had some impact or when Spielberg makes a film that is obviously more blockbuster-ish ie Indiana Jones or Jurassic Park as opposed to Lincoln?

I think it will make some difference to some people in the audiences though that doesn't mean that they won't go but look at it with a different eye. Star Wars is massive in culture and part of that effect is Lucas is massive in culture.

It will only be considered a cause for optimism from that small and vocal group who among other things want the theatrical editions of the films and delude themselves that the PT is universally hated, damaged the franchise, were massive failures despite all the objective evidence to the contrary and have either forced themselves to believe or are just too warped in their perceptions to realize that the PT was one of the if not the greatest practical effects movies in cinema history.

 

So what GL films are held as having revered direction?

 

I can't have this debate with someone who believes George Lucas enhanced his reputation as a director with the prequels or that it's a bitter, vocal minority that consider the PT to fall some way short of the originals.

I'm sorry, I totally get that some people love them every bit as much if not more than the originals, but it's divorced from reality to suggest the PT are generally considered on a par with the OT.

I'm sorry - I know this is a grating view for some and I totally respect if people love all or any of the films. We're all fans. I won't bang the drum any more.

 

I said revered director. Do I have to be so exacting all the time to say storyteller, producer etc etc?

So the fact that the OT was followed up by a trilogy that was a massive multi-year string of hit movies doesn't enhance his reputation? Of course it does.

It is a bitter vocal minority that consider the PT to fall short. Bitter because they can't understand how these films were so successful. If they were as hated as they would have anyone believe then their success simply couldn't have happened. They are confounded when to their horror their children like the PT as much as or more than the OT.

The people who love the OT as desperately as that don't want their story changed. Most of all I've realized is they don't want their shock at "I am your father" to be taken away. They don't want it to be "Yeah I knew that already." That horrifys them that their "moment" is taken away.

That is my point. They aren't considered to be on the same level due to that small vocal minority who are a larger part of the media at this time. On top of that you must realize how incredibly lazy much of the rest of the media is in general terms. It's a pack mentality. If you are someone who has no real investment either way you might as well go with the flow and bash the PT because it's expected. It really no different than all the people who complain about the PT being all CG. You and I know that is total rubbish but they don't really care about it and certainly aren't going to look into it so they just go with what they hear.

Why would you put yourself out there?

I see it constantly. Anyone who has more insight into a book, comic, TV series in media terms will find so much misinformation as to make them laugh. The more mainstream the worse it is.

 

I'm sorry. We are never going to see eye to eye on this. Agree to disagree.

 

When did I ever say Lucas chose lighting and framing? I said he chose set design etc. He came up with the character design. Generally lighting is in the hands of the cinematographer etc anyway, not the director.

The changes you see in lighting style are due to the change in Cinematographer from Gilbert Taylor to Peter Suschitzky.

As for the Harry Potter Series, there was a pretty big uproar at the time when the aesthetics of Hogwarts grounds changed so dramatically during the saga on film. That is what I'm referring to as jarring in difference.

 

Hmm..Lucas isn't a revered director I'm afraid. Lucas has great ideas. A revered 'director' he isn't.

 

Hopefully it will be good enough to garner reviews such as the New York Times saying "Episode VII ranks with The Empire Strikes Back as the richest and most challenging movie of the cycle." Just like the last episode that was released.

 

Edited - life is too short.

 

Lucas isn't the only one who can write SW nor should he be. I look forward to seeing what JJ can do.

 

I don't know if EP7 will be the biggest hit ever, but I imagine the entire ST put together will be the biggest TRILOGY (in terms of box office gross) ever.

 

I think if they receive good reviews and word of mouth, they will be huge. Probably won't take the all time crowns but people will be hungry for genuinely good SW.

 

THX-1138
American Graffiti
Star Wars

Visionary films by any measure.

And I agree, Lucas is not a pure director, he's so much more. There was too much going on in the guy's head for him to be a director only.

 

Those three are undeniably great films.

 

I bet the tomato meter will be in the 90s. I know all of you were waiting for my weigh in.

 

The pre-buzz around the industry is positive. Kevin Smith was in tears when he visited the set and kept going on about how tactile a world JJ is building. That one puppet got more buzz and talk than most movies get. But some people still feel burned by the PT, myself included. They might come around when pictures, clips and trailers are available or by word of mouth from those who get advanced screenings.

Never underestimate the power of Luke, Han and Leia. These are the heroes of Star Wars for many and we will get them back- in the form of their original actors. For 30 years we wanted these characters back, to see more adventures. Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master beats whiny brat Anakin Skywalker everytime. The new characters are going to be awesome. I trust Mark, Carrie and even Harrison to help these new ones along and take their rightful place as the next generation.

I really think the PT will suffer even more when the ST comes out. If JJ managed to keep visual consistency and the other films follow the PT will be the odd man out. People will see the ST and wonder what happened with the PT.

I hope to see headlines like "The Magic is Back" or "Star Wars is Good Again"

 

They were also all made in the 70's. Something happened to Lucas after Last Crusade. It was almost like he was Darth Vader and lost most of his talent in a horrible accident.

 

I think you are correct... most people won't automatically associate a film with a director (unless it's something particularly unique and pop culturally significant). Audiences will be either moved or unmoved regardless.

I'm really struggling to understand what you think a director actually does if not to interpret what's on a page and transpose it into moving images. Do you think Kershner just stood on set and said "yep whatever dude" to his DP etc? They are there to serve the director and not the other way around.

As for Harry Potter... I seem to remember that most everyone thought that Cuaron's Prisoner of Azakaban was an improvement on the previous two and that Newell and Yates brought a more 'realistic' touch to the latter ones. I'm not sure where this 'uproar' was? Probably the gnashing of teeth in fandom I suppose...[/quote]

 

I always find it amusing when fans slag off Lucas, because after all we must think his work is good enough to make us sign up as a minority on a forum to discuss and dissect every minute detail of the films. I'm not saying that he isn't above any criticism though.

I think the new ST will be received well. I think it will be judged against the OT as every new SW film will forever be. I think JJ also has a chance to learn from the perceived mistakes of the PT too.