Senate Your Princess Is in Another Castle: Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds

Discussion in 'Community' started by Heero_Yuy, May 29, 2014.

  1. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...er-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html

    I know there's Elliot Rodger discussion in the gun control thread, but this article isn't about guns and I didn't want to derail that thread.

    Personally, I think this is a well written article and I agree with much of it. I especially feel it hits me close to home as I've never been all that successful with women myself. Hell, I've come to accept I never will and that it's OK to be like that.

    What say you all?
  2. Sith-Lord-Gunray Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2003
    star 7
    I don't want to read it because all I can see is your icon and I can't move past that.
  3. heels1785 Jedi Draft Commissioner

    Game Host
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    Dec 10, 2003
    star 6
  4. Darth Guy Chosen One

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    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    I thought this was going to be a link to that Feminist Frequency YouTube thing that nerds freaked out over a year or two ago. That was fun.
    Penguinator likes this.
  5. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    1. why put a full stop after "yet"? I mean. Is it necessary?
    2. people who hate women don't necessarily go out and murder them. he was ****ed up, so i don't see an (initial) focus on mental illness as being a bad, or incorrect thing. certainly the whole misogynist angle has been very much discussed in coverage since.
  6. Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2000
    star 8
    I used to be a misogynist. During that protracted period of clinical depression. I guess really it would be more accurate to say I was just a misanthropist. I generally hated people and thought they were pieces of ****. But, even though I hated men and kids too, I think it would be fair to say I hated women more. You know, the obvious "******* a-hole" reason - I couldn't have sex with all the ones I found physically attractive. I guess the misanthropy stemmed from feeling that everyone but me was happy and having a good life. But with women I found physically attractive, there was that added sexual thing. Which, at that mentally jacked up time in my life, all made perfect sense to me. Thank God that's over. But I don't recall ever actually wanting to physically hurt them or force them to have sex with me. Even at my darkest moment, I never would have done either of those things. But my experience definitely made me feel a little more compassion in this instance; therapy and medication helped cure my depression, which cured a whole host of other negative personality things that were stemming from the depression. With therapy and meds, this guy might have been cured too. Perhaps not; there are degrees of mental illness and mine was really very mild. But there was once at least a chance and now we'll never know.
    Sandtrooper92 likes this.
  7. Ramza JC Head Admin and RPF Manager

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    Jul 13, 2008
    star 7
    Inland Empire was good, though.
    Isotope217 and Heero_Yuy like this.
  8. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Yes, nerds are pretty retrograde and sexist but get upset when asked to examine their own behavior.

    Not unique to nerds though -- it's a common trait of prejudice. What bothers people is that a group defined by marginalization and exclusion would then go and do that to others.

    But then again, marginalization and exclusion is one of our favorite pastimes in JCC so...


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
  9. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    My son starts college in the fall, and he's been on the university's online app for vetting potential roommates. It's kind of exactly precisely like a dating site, and he's been dividing people into piles of those likely to go on a killing spree, starting with their first-year roommate, and those who don't seem likely to do that. Tongue in cheek, but still.

    Sign of the times.
  10. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Two things -

    1) I quibble with the Sixteen Candles bit, only because I think there was enough screwed up behavior by everyone in the entire movie and growth for everyone, as a more realistic description of high school. I think the movie is also more nuanced in what happened (over the entire movie, really) than the description therein.

    2) I'm not necessarily sure what it says about the Revenge of the Nerds canon that Lewis ended up marrying and having a pretty spectacular life with Betty (the girl from the mentioned Darth Vader mask episode); I'm also not sure what it says about Chu that he names Lewis (and Booger) but refers to Betty only as "Stan's girlfriend." I'm not sure what it says about me that I knew everyone's name without needing to look it up.

    However, the nut graf, as always:

    "So, a question, to my fellow male nerds:

    What the **** is wrong with us?

    How much longer are we going to be in denial that there’s a thing called 'rape culture' and we ought to do something about it?"
  11. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    ^ I think the point of those examples was more a decision to point out a trend in general. There are so many movies about the nerd (or even just a regular joe) getting the girl. In particular, there are a **** ton of movies where the hot chick wants nothing to do with Our Hero until the end, after his persistence and being there for her pays off. I think one of the reasons, "Friendzoning," has become such a thing in our modern society is because we're all constantly told that if we're persistent enough when in reality, that's typically not how it works. If you're attracted to someone, you're attracted to them. If you're not, you're not and that tends to be something difficult to change.

    The reason I mentioned myself earlier is because I've stopped looking for a girlfriend and am instead focusing on other areas of my life. Women and sex aren't everything. There are plenty of ways to make you happy, you just have to look for them.
  12. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2009
    star 4
    I don't agree with every point in that article, but the last statement is 100% accurate. Too many people today adamantly refuse to grow up beyond the physical. That said, I also think its perfectly fine to be "nerdy" or "geeky" as an adult, so long as it doesn't define your whole personality.
    Last edited by Moviefan2k4, May 29, 2014
  13. harpua Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 8
    That can be said of anything, really... religion, work, political beliefs, etc... no one thing should define a person's entire personality.
  14. DarthIntegral Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 13, 2005
    star 7
    I mean, yes, the article makes good points. But, let's be honest, this is not just a "nerd" problem. I think most men have been fed some form of the "do x, y, and z and you'll get the girl formula". It's a society issue. We too often think of women - or sex - as prizes for a job well done.

    The flow chart of "do I want to have sex with her?" -> YES -> "Does she want to have sex with me?" -> NO -> "how do I change that / doesn't she know what I've accomplished to earn that sex" is not unique to nerds. We're the only ones calling it a flowchart, sure. But it's way more than just nerds. That's how Ben Roethlisberger ends up with rape charges. Hard to call him a nerd. But it was the same entitlement plus objectification.
  15. Zapdos Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2013
    star 5
    yeah, idk, i think this is more about losers than nerds. not all nerds are losers and not all losers are nerds, and stuff like that
  16. Heero_Yuy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 4
    I agree. I didn't mean to generalize. I actually read a similar article that discussed Elliot Rodger and this issue in more general terms, but I can't seem to find that one and this article seemed closer to us I suppose as fellow nerds. ;)

    The reason I liked that article was because it spent a good deal of time talking about how virginity is seen in our culture. There is a great deal of stigma and shame attached to being a virgin male (rightly or wrongly). So much so that the older you are, the harder it is to get a girlfriend and lose your virginity. It's a bit of an unfair catch 22, but there it is.

    ETA: The point is, if those societal stigmas weren't there, would the shooter and others like him have been as likely to lash out the way they did? When the only (perceived) way to reaffirm that they are men in society is to be violent and vengeful?
    Last edited by Heero_Yuy, May 29, 2014
  17. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    i don't think the article is trying to deny that misogyny comes from other sectors. the fact is that misogyny is most often associated with those other sectors, the macho jock roethlisberger types, while nerds are maybe stereotyped as being more sensitive and intellectual. that's why it's important to call out the role nerd culture is playing in our systemic objectification of women.
    Last edited by tom, May 29, 2014
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  18. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7

    what do you disagree with?
  19. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I'm trying to understand how this mentally disturbed shooter is somehow connected to anything aside from a need for an actual gun control debate that does not involve NRA politics.
  20. EmpireForever Chosen One

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    Mar 15, 2004
    star 8
  21. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 29, 2009
    star 4
    From the article, and my responses...

    I'd say it depends on the situation. Many women feign disinterest as a method of finding out whether the man will chase them. They know men are thrilled and motivated by "the chase", sometimes even more than the result.

    Some guys actually do end up in great, committed relationships through perseverance. However, this article seems to paint all men who seek that outcome as objectifying women instead of being respectful. I'm not advocating the whole "obsessed stalker" approach, but men are mentally and emotionally wired to seek out challenges. When acquiring something or someone becomes too easy, we often lose interest.
    Last edited by Moviefan2k4, May 29, 2014
    Rogue_Ten likes this.
  22. tom Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2004
    star 6
    aaaaaand we've found the problem.
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  23. dp4m Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 9
    Is it too simplistic to point out that women (or, really, anyone whom you're choosing to be your life mate) shouldn't be a challenge, but a partner? Need more?
  24. Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2000
    star 8
    [IMG]


    Dear Moviefan. I'm not even going to sugar coat this: THIS ARTICLE WAS WRITTEN ABOUT YOU AND PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU. READ IT. Then read it again. Then think about your answers and reread them. Then when you come to realize that YOU ARE EXACTLY PART OF THE PROBLEM, then we'll talk.
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  25. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Chase? That's such a beta thing to do.
    Rogue_Ten likes this.