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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Misogyny, Entitlement, and Pop Culture

Discussion in 'Community' started by Heero_Yuy, May 29, 2014.

  1. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Today in Wal-Mart, I noticed some licensed fishing supplies for kids, and for the boys they where branded with Spider-Man and The Avengers, and for the girls, Disney Princesses and Barbie.

    Like I said earlier, girls can't be superheroes?
     
    Jedi Ben and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  2. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    That's a rather useless complaint.
    There's no moral direction behind the branding of those items, they just do what sells.
    If you want to change it, you need to start a toy company.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I've posted about this in the Lit forum before: the issue is not selling fishing rods with superheroes and princesses. The issue is marketing them "for boys" and "for girls." Not only does such marketing perpetuate asinine outdated stereotypes which should be discouraged, but it can exacerbate problems for kids in school who do not fit into the "norm".

    A boy should be able to carry a princess lunchbox, and a girl should be able to carry a superhero lunchbox, without being mocked for carrying a lunchbox that is 'for the other gender.'

    Princess items are for people who like princesses. Superhero items are for people who like superheroes. The end.
     
    Frank T., Jedi Ben, Zapdos and 5 others like this.
  4. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Why are those stereotypes asinine?
    Why are they outdated?
    Why should it be discouraged?

    If you think a commercial company has the moral obligation to cater to niche markets, you're in favor of ruining the world economy.
     
  5. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    With all the women who like Star Wars, Marvel comics, etc., you're asking why a stereotype about "all girls liking princess stuff" is asinine? Really?

    A stereotype demands that the group depicted in the stereotype conform or be marginalized (at best) or ostracized (at worst).

    Girls MUST like pink and princess stuff. Boys MUST NOT like pink and princess stuff. Get the hell out of the toy section that is not for your gender!

    The stereotypes are outdated because most of society no longer demands that women be either housewives, teachers or nurses. Because schools no longer mandate that girls take home economics and boys take shop (which is what happened when my parents were kids). Because it is actually considered a problem now (by some) that women are treated unequally in the workplace. Need I continue?

    And as I said...bullying is already a problem in schools. There was a pretty well promoted story about a girl named Katie who was bullied for having a Star Wars lunchbox.

    When toy companies could easily sell their products without including gender at all...by promoting "princess products" and "superhero products"...there is no reason whatsoever for them to encourage outdated gender stereotypes.

    It's not about catering to a niche market. The toy companies don't need to say "Hey look! Superhero products for girls! Princess products for boys!"

    Just promote the damn toys.
     
  6. beezel26

    beezel26 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 11, 2003
    Well here's one way to get women to be paid equally to men. Get us men to realize that working longs hours does nothing for us except letting life pass us by. Losing times with our families and friends. And when I mean families I mean brothers and sisters and nieces and nephews and moms and dads. Not just at a reunion or holiday weekend. Get us to realize that not when we are older but when we are younger in our mid to late 20s.

    You don't need to have a child to have a family. You were apart of one when you were born. As men we forget that instead of putting our careers ahead of ourselves until its too late.
     
  7. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    I have no family. I sprung from the earth.
     
    Frank T. likes this.
  8. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Niche markets?

    Gender stereotypes are unhealthy... they send out the message to kids who do not fit into the peg that they are somehow abnormal--that they are, somehow, less 'feminine' or 'masculine.' It's an outdated and unhealthy way of thinking.

    These companies have the right idea...
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/07/kids-clothing-lines-break-gender-stereotypes_n_6925592.html
     
  9. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    I have a 3 year old cousin-in-law (if that's a thing) who loves Frozen, Peppa Pig, baby dolls, toy kitchens, toy cars, dinosaurs, dragons, Marvel superheroes, DC superheroes, Star Wars, and computer games.
     
  10. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Are Legos specifically aimed at one gender or both? I get the impression that it's both.
     
  11. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I want to know if I can get that space dress in a woman's size 6. :p

    My biggest frustration as the mother of boys--and Kristie may have experienced it too--is stores devoting one-quarter of their kids' clothing section to boy clothes and the other three-quarters to pink and lacy ****.

    I'd be more even more frustrated if my children were girls and I actually wanted to buy clothes that were not pink and lacy.
     
    Jedi Ben and harpua like this.
  12. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Legos are pretty gender neutral, yes.
     
  13. I Are The Internets

    I Are The Internets Shelf of Shame Host star 9 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 20, 2012
    That's the word I'm looking for!
     
  14. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    I don't think Lego are, really. Duplo is, but I'm not so sure about Lego.

    http://www.lego.com/en-us/friends?icmp=COUSFRFriends

    http://www.lego.com/en-us/city?icmp=COUSFRCity

    Both of these could have both genders as characters.

    And there is no 's' at the end of Lego.
     
    halibut likes this.
  15. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    It's a pretty diverse brand... sure, they cater to 'girly girls,' or whatever, because they are out there, and that's fine, But their other sets aren't specifically packaged for boys. I played with them when I was growing up... not just Duplo. Today, I have a pretty big collection.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  16. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Well Disney cater to boys and girls, but there are still Princess fishing rods marketed to girls, and superhero fishing rods marketed to boys.
     
  17. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I'm not denying that. I'm saying I'd like to see it change and become more universal.
     
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  18. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Lego is pretty gender-neutral, but they have a series called Lego Friends aimed specially for girls that has pink and lavender blocks, but for some reason is segregated from the regular Lego stuff, and is usually placed in the girls' aisle.

    It's stereotypically girly stuff, but with a Lego spin to it.
     
  19. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I feel like I should clarify... I'm not saying that pink or princess stuff is bad. If kids are into that sort of thing, that's awesome. Every kid should be allowed to love what they love without judgment from anybody else. What I have a problem with is girls who do not like pink princesses being told (or shown through cues) that they are not normal--that their behavior and preferences are 'masculine.' Same goes for boys... if a boy wants to play with a princess doll, he should be able to do so without judgment. That's what I'm saying. I don't think every toy or clothing line needs to be 100% neutral. I feel there should be more options for everybody.
     
  20. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Exactly.

    No toy company will stop people from being idiots who think in gender stereotypes, so no, the making fun of boys for playing with "girl toys" won't stop (at least not right away) if Disney does not market "toys for girls" or "toys for boys".

    But the toy companies could do their part in not perpetuating the stereotypes, without any damage whatsoever to their profit.
     
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  21. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Lego, Duplo, Sticklebrix (is that still a thing?), Mechano, all that creative play/building blocks stuff is unisex, as it should be. I don't mind if Lego want to specifically target sexist parents by making sets that exploit traditional gender roles, it's not like there are girl bricks that are incompatible with boy bricks.
     
  22. Kimball_Kinnison

    Kimball_Kinnison Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 28, 2001
    We've bought two fishing rods for our oldest. The first was a Star Wars one featuring a Clone Wars-style Anakin. A year ago, on his first fishing trip, he decided that he wanted to do one last cast after we had packed everything up (and while I was bringing the car around). My wife and dad barely caught him before he followed the pole into the water. As far as I know, it's still sitting on the bottom of the reservoir.

    After making him earn $10 to replace it (doing chores for a quarter each), he got a new fishing pole. This one has "Diego" (evidently a character related to the Dora the Explorer show) on it, but we didn't buy it because of that. We bought it because it will actually float if dropped in the water. (Fool me once...)

    Both our 4-year old son and our 2 1/2 year-old daughter love it, and enjoy practicing casting it in the back yard. Neither one cares what it looks like. They only care if they get their turn with it.
     
  23. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Yes, Diego is Dora's cousin. He has an older sister named Alicia, and a friend called Baby Jaguar who is a baby Jaguar. His Camera is named Click (voiced by Rosie Perez). He also has a Rescue Pack, which is of great aid to him.
     
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  24. Valairy Scot

    Valairy Scot Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Things are better than when I was a wee one - I was embarrassed to check out the "Boy's Sherlock Holmes" from the library because I wasn't apparently supposed to read it. I always wanted to play with my brother's Lego and Lincoln logs (or get my own) when I didn't want to play with my dolls (anyone remember Little Kiddles? I always made "houses" out of shoeboxes and decorated them, too).

    But the comment about ruining the economy - oh, c'mon, get real. Marketing "pink and fluffy with sparklies" or construction toys - whatever - should be on the shelves just as now. Just not with displays/ads only showing one gender playing with whatever or segregated.
     
  25. beezel26

    beezel26 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 11, 2003
    Who decided girls have to like pink things in the first place? Ok I understand it was used when it determined if it was a boy or girl during and after pregnancy but really who decided after that? Who decided that things had to be pink to represent girls. Seriously, women don't wear pink all the time. Imagine what female fashions would be like if they were still following the commercial interests of girls with pink everything.
     
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.