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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate Misogyny, Entitlement, and Pop Culture

Discussion in 'Community' started by Heero_Yuy, May 29, 2014.

  1. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    and if I do not like a creator or the works they've created, I quietly kick them where it hurts: financially. Voting with your wallet is an easy way to let someone know you do not like what they're doing without saying a word.
     
    Jedi Merkurian and Juliet316 like this.
  2. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    double post.
     
  3. Bowen

    Bowen Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 1999
    I think the premise of this guy's initial article that started this thread is kind of wrong. There's nothing wrong with the idea that to "get the girl," you need to succeed and achieve a certain level of status or happiness or whatever you might say. In fact, I think that's a healthy attitude but the key is realizing "the girl" won't make you happy, YOU have to be happy first, be a complete, well-rounded person, and then when you reach that level, you're going to be a more pleasant person to be around anyway and hopefully increase your likelihood of meeting the right girl for you.

    I also think a lot of nerds have a victim mentality that the world is a screwed up place and it needs to change to accommodate them. They have this attitude often times that girls are just stupid because girls like jocks and they don't like the brainy nerds. Well, newsflash: You don't have to be a stereotype! I personally would never want to be a stereotype. I realized when I was younger I would prefer to defy all classification and be a fully realized individual not just "a nerd" or "a jock." I had two groups of friends even when I was younger, the total nerds and a few of the most athletic people in my class. I played video games with both groups, actually, but also did more outdoors stuff with my jock friends, basketball, whatever. I competed in tons of sports too. I was a huge nerd in high school because Star Wars, video games, and suddenly had no time for sports with studying and my school's intense sports devotion (JHS in Portland was ranked #1 in the nation for high school sports by Sports Illustrated, several times I think). Then I became a nerd and I could never get the girl. Didn't kiss a girl in high school or even close, didn't date anyone, nothing.

    But despite my frustrations, I think you have to turn inwards and not say what's wrong with girls?! Why don't they like me? I'm smart! You have to consider what they're looking for in a guy, too. Being a scrawny 135 pound guy at 5'10" wasn't going to get it done. Most girls like a guy who is physically attractive -- it may not be everything to them, but why not do everything you can to be the best you that you can be? I got a trainer and within a few years I was up to 170-175 pounds, benching 225 and hiking, rock climbing, got back into skiing a bit, and shortly after that I got two black belts, Taekwon-Do and Hapkido. I really loved it a lot and being in touch with your physical side is a great bonus to your mental side, too. There's no reason that nerds have to keep being just nerds. You can build strength and look great even as an older guy. You just have to want it. I got Lasik to correct my vision to better-than-normal human vision, 20/12, I got Invisalign to fix my teeth, had them whitened, etc. Sitting around at home and whining about not getting the girl has never been the way to go. You have to be proactive!

    I don't think girls are a prize to be won, by any means, but they are people too, which means they have things they want in a guy that may require effort. I know I expect a girl to be in shape and take care of her health just in a general sense, because health is important to me, so it's not a surprise girls would enjoy the same in most guys.

    Another problem this article does kind of point out is "the hot girl" isn't always someone who is compatible with you, either. They are very, very rare. I have had tons of hot girls I've known, actresses I've worked with, whatever, who I could certainly appreciate they were gorgeous and I went on dates with some of them, but we had nothing in common. One girl asked me, "Who is Woody Allen?" and for me that's just kind of... not going to happen. You need to know basic things about society and culture, otherwise it's a huge turn-off for me no matter what you look like.

    I don't agree with the type of premise that some of these articles espouse that you should ignore the hot girl or the girl who is "out of your league" or whatever else. I got told that when I was in high school once, that "it's not hard" to kiss a girl, you just find someone at your level, and why wouldn't you make it happen? Maybe it's my personality but I don't believe in that -- nobody is above my level. That attitude doesn't fly with me. I wanted the hottest girls or I didn't want anyone at all. I would rather put in the effort to raise myself up to their level than to settle for someone I'm not even attracted to and you cannot force yourself to be attracted to people I don't find good looking. It's just not going to happen. At least not for me. I had many friends act like I was too picky or like I should just settle for the first somewhat ok girl who came along. But I waited and instead, tomorrow will be 3 years and 8 months with my girlfriend, who is hot, smart, has a great personality, likes Star Wars, LOTR, Marvel movies, and also importantly hates dancing, doesn't want kids, and isn't your stereotypical "hot popular girl." You have to find the right girl for you, which is different for everyone. The higher the standards, the rarer it is to find, but I would rather be single than settle, so I didn't.

    As a few people here said, you can be passive and be "the nice guy" who is just unlucky because the world is an unfair place, or you can ditch the victim mentality and grab life by the horns, realize you create your own destiny, nobody is too good for you, and you can become the alpha male. I'm sorry that in our society that idea has fallen by the wayside as people seem not to value it, but on a base, biological level -- which is what matters in attraction -- girls still like men, not boys, who look like men, act like men, and go after what they want.
     
  4. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Agreed.

    As for "don't be annoyed at all" - is it okay to be more annoyed by the continuous superhero bombardment than by any interactions depicted within?
    You want to relate to characters with special powers who all dress up in spandex to save the world, go ahead. But then don't come here complaining that they don't act right.
     
    harpua likes this.
  5. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Whedon's a sexist pig?
     
  6. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    According to the people hurling death threats at him, he is.
     
  7. Debo

    Debo Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2001
    What a world.
     
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  8. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2000
    These nerdrage delusionals are the same people who froth and snarl on the internets and claim bewilderment about intolerant religious fanatics who threaten violence against artists for their satirical depictions of religious figures - they seem to literally jump from bemoaning religious fanatics to sending death threats to a director because of the portrayal of a ficitonal character.
     
  9. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Then why on earth would you lump yourself in with those idiots and call him one aswell?
     
  10. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    I didn't call him one. I said there are far worse pigs out there. I think he's catching crap because a lot of the people hurling these threads are probably more concerned about a superhero movie than misogyny.
     
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  11. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    If there are worse, he must be one.
     
  12. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Um... no. He was mentioned in my post, because that's who was being discussed. Don't put words in my mouth.
     
    Rogue1-and-a-half likes this.
  13. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Whedon seems to be one of those in entertainment who goes "Look! I make strong women!" while creating characters like Skye who we are supposed to love because she's...strong or something?

    Only judging on his intent prior to this movie which I haven't seen yet...it's nice that he wants to create strong women but a bit less show-off-ish would be nice.
     
  14. DantheJedi

    DantheJedi Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 23, 2009
    I think his attraction to short, brown-haired, waif-ish women who can kick butt must've stemmed back from reading X-Men comics with Kitty Pryde as a teenager.

    (Just my own little armchair psychoanalyzing on Ol' Joss)
     
  15. jabberwalkie

    jabberwalkie Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Slightly off topic, but I thought Joss helped to create the show and his brother Jed has had more involvement. Looking at the IMDB credits Joss wrote the pilot and his brother has written 10 episodes since. So shouldn't some of the blame fall onto his brother for that?
     
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  16. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    Except that it's not just this one show. It's literally every single program he ever makes. Like a certain one in particular I could think of.
     
  17. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013

    I'm not putting words in your mouth.

    There are far worse murders than Jack the ripper. But Jack is still a murderer. There are far worse sexist pigs than Joss Whedon, but he's still a sexist pig.

    Perhaps choose your words more wisely?
     
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  18. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Except I didn't say he's a sexist pig. I was responding to other peoples' opinions of him.


    This argument is stupid.
     
  19. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    It is. And it came from your poor use of language.
     
  20. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Excellent... so I'm going to give you the last word on that, with the hope that you'll stfu so that I don't have to take part in this stupid argument anymore.


    So anyway, I haven't yet seen this movie, but people sure are pissed off about it.
     
  21. Rogue1-and-a-half

    Rogue1-and-a-half Manager Emeritus who is writing his masterpiece star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2000
    I'm not being obtuse. If there's more to what people are upset about than the love story and the, um, how to say it, without spoilers? The whole "do you see a key?" bit, I guess. I acknowledge that the film doesn't handle her perfectly; I've already said once in this thread and a couple of times in other threads, that the whole "do you see a key?" bit is, um, stupid. But let me do some research.

    Okay, just did some research and I have to say that the upset is a completely wrong-headed reading of the "monster" scene. That's a really beautiful scene; both participants in it are really giving everything they've got in terms of acting and it really, really lands. I mean, that is so clearly not the thing driving the whole "monster" designation. It's not the result that is monstrous; it's the process and the violation of that process.

    And can I just say that once again Widow is the character I most empathized with in the film and that scene in particular was a quiet moment of asking every guy in that theater to feel what a female character is feeling. And I did. More than any other scene in the movie, the most effecting one was a scene with Black Widow. In a world of cinema where everyone is told again and again and again that the only people worthy of empathy are white men, I call that a moment of progress. Feel that, young male audience member.

    She's the deepest character with the most complicated inner life & the truest emotions. Which movies have you seen that she's been in?
     
  22. Diggy

    Diggy Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Feb 27, 2013
    so I get the last word? I think that word is...VICTORY.
     
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  23. mavjade

    mavjade Former Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2005
    I didn't walk away with any sexist feelings from it and while I can almost see where people are coming from, I just didn't see it that way. (And there is never any excuse for death threats and all that craziness, especially over a superhero movie.)

    And if Joss Whedon is a sexist pig, we must have really moved on as a society and become complete gender equal because from where I'm sitting, he's one of the few men in Hollywood who has consistently made an effort to make great female characters. He's not perfect, but he's making the effort which is way more than a lot of people can say.
     
  24. Harpua

    Harpua Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2005
    Agreed... I haven't seen any of his superhero movies, because superheros really aren't my thing, but I'm a fan of most things he's done, and have never gotten a sexist vibe from him.
     
  25. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I've seen all of the MCU except AoU. They're my go-to "when I'm bored, might as well" movies. I remember Iron Man 2, the first Avengers, and Winter Soldier. I forget if she was in others. :p Her biggest role was in Cap 2, and my major criticism of that is they could've introduced a totally new SHIELD agent and it would've been basically the same thing. I don't really understand why people find the character interesting, or why people don't think there are issues with her portrayal (e.g., using her sex appeal a lot). Maybe I feel that way because she's the only member of the Avengers team without apparent superpowers and other than Hawkeye (but really, who cares about him?) the only one without a solo outing. :p
     
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