Senate Misogyny, Entitlement, and Pop Culture

I have several friends who were assaulted and all were by people they knew and thought they could trust. I don't know the exact statistics but I believe the majority of rapes and assaults are by people the victim knows.

His letter made me ill, all of it was about him and what he's lost. He hasn't suffered at all compared to what she has to live with. Twenty minutes of his time, a life time of pain for her, yet all he can talk about his how he feels about his losses. Totally selfish, if he were a nice as they make him out to be, he would have made sure she was okay and got her help to get home safely, not raped her.

The only thing she should have had from that night is a hangover. Drinking lowers your inhibitions, it doesn't take away your morality or your responsibility for your actions. If he had driven a car and killed someone he would be responsible for murder, this is no different just because he didn't kill her.


If he weren't wealthy and white he would not have gotten off so well, they would have given him a much harsher sentence.

 

Sociopaths can be quite charming, likeable and functional. I never needed to be taught to not rape. I have never raped anyone nor ever wanted to and I suspect most men are like me. I have nothing against the idea of teaching it but the problem is that it gets turned into this absolute idea that all men are just rapists waiting to happen.

 

That's great that you do not need to be taught not to rape, but there are plenty of men who do because they have no idea that women cannot consent when they are black out drunk or unconscious. They have to be taught that.

I have never once said that all men are rapists or capable of rape. It is a minority of men who are. But you trying to dismiss the idea that it is pointless to teach men about rape I completely disagree with, for the reasons cited above in my post (I noticed you ignored the rest of my post). There is a cluelessness among MANY men (and women) that rape includes sex with an unconscious or black out drunk person and is not always a scary guy lurking in the bushes who grabs a girl and rapes her at knifepoint.

Just because you do not need a lesson to be taught not to rape does not mean that teaching it in school and campus would benefit many, many men and potentially prevent thousands of rapes.

When I see a case that involves a girl passed out unconscious on the floor and a GROUP of frat boys cheering their buddy on as he raped her as they stood in a circle around them (some recording it on their phones), and when those boys were interviewed by police said "I had no idea she couldn't consent if she was unconscious/I didn't intervene because I had no idea that was rape", there cannot be clearer evidence that education is needed to teach boys like this that a girl CANNOT consent when she is unconscious. If you can't see that, then I have nothing more to say to you.

 

"I had no idea she couldn't consent if she was unconscious/I didn't intervene because I had no idea that was rape"

That sounds to me like a kid trying to get out of trouble. A pedofile priest recently said the same thing about raping children.

 

So you think there is no benefit to teaching boys about the rules of consent and sexual assault? Wow.

I have nothing more to say to you.

 

#NOTALLMEN

the problem, which we have been discussing, is that lines of consent can be blurred, especially among young adults taking their first nervous steps into sexual activity, and especially when alcohol is involved. that's great that no one had to teach you "not to rape". but what we're talking about is having a more nuanced conversation with our kids that covers the dangers of alcohol use, peer pressure, and all of the factors that can lead to incidents where consent is not clear. and it's not enough to say "don't rape", we also need to be teaching our kids to look out for and protect others if they see them in potentially dangerous situations.

 

Not all men are rapists, but almost every woman has faced a creep or a pervert , and way too many have dealt with sexual assault.

Looks, charm and money have nothing to do with character, most sociopathic personalities are masters at fitting in and know how to fake charm.

It is about teaching boys and girls from an early age that unless you are pushing somebody away from an oncoming bus, or doing cpr, you don't have the right to touch another person without consent. If someone of any gender says no, it must be respected. It also should go with out saying that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity. He gave her neither, and even now only seems concerned with him self. Sadly there are way too many people like him out there, he is getting all the publicity right now, but there are thousands of others just like him out there.

 

Yes, exactly. If you ask the average teenage boy "Do you know it's wrong to rape?" of course he will say yes. But if you ask them "Well, do you know a person cannot consent to sex when they are black out drunk/unconscious and that if you have sex with them in that state it is rape and you can be charged with it?" many of them do NOT understand that. They have to be taught that rape isn't some guy jumping out from the bushes and raping a girl, it can be what seems like a consensual experience between an intoxicated girl and a guy at a party.

I don't know how anyone could read Brock's statement or Leslie's letter (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...r-statement-stanford-rape-case-campus-culture) and not see a stunning lack of awareness and insight that yes, rape includes trying to have sex with an unconscious person, it is not just "boys and girls drinking too much and being idiots". Leslie's letter even says "Campus rape isn't rape, rape is only when someone kidnaps someone in a parking lot." How anyone can read that and say "Nope, it would be pointless to teach teenagers that a black out drunk or unconscious person cannot consent and that rape includes campus rape" is beyond me.

 

Actually I flat out said the opposite. Perhaps it should be me who has nothing more to say to you?

 

Well you posted an article about how it was pointless to teach boys not to rape because rape is only committed by sociopaths who won't listen to what educators say anyway. Did you post that article to disagree with it, or did you post it because you agreed with it?

 

It's less about "don't rape", than it is about what exactly constitutes rape. Most people hear rape and they think of a stranger grabbing someone, not a date that can't take no for an answer, or a boyfriend that thinks one yes means yes every time, or the guy who thinks if a girl wears sexy clothes she wants to have sex, or the frat boy that thinks an unconscious person is theirs for the taking.

It's about respect for others, something some people don't seem to have.

 

i don't see any good reason not to educate boys/men on rape, even if the majority are capable of realising it on their own. how can more knowledge on the subject actually hurt?

 

This, and educating women, too.

 

Then you go to hell, silly! Oh, you women!

 

No one really has a problem with teaching people about safe sex, even though I assume most people here use protection, so I guess I can't see why educating ignorant people about rape should be a problem. But at the same time, anyone who rapes probably knows what they're doing is wrong, they just don't care. Education is important, but I think harsher punishment for those caught is the best course of action. Let them know that it isn't alright and that if they're lucky they get caught by 2 danish guys on bikes... If you ask me, that dumpster would have been a fitting resting place.

 

Unfortunately, many people have a problem with safe sex, and teaching people about safe sex. This is actually a thing. A big thing. That takes and has taken an incredible amount of effort to fight.

I also wouldn't assume that most people, here or anywhere, use protection.

Apparently, many people (as evidenced by the response of Brock's supporters) have a problem with being educated on what is and what isn't rape, and will steadfastly resist such education. Brock, and his father and friends, don't seem to know that what Brock did was wrong.

So I'm gonna double down, hard, on the support for education.

I support harsher punishment, too. Especially in this case.

 

I have no problem with more education but let's acknowledge that education, or a lack thereof, was not the problem in this case. This POS knew what he was doing and he knew he shouldn't have been doing it. When he got caught, he ran away, which is not the general reaction someone has if they are doing something they believe is legit.

I think we need a societal and cultural change, especially in popular media. There are countless instances of the guy who won't take no for an answer seen as being either the dashing, charming guy who we all know will get the girl eventually (i.e. the Sam Malone type) or the lovable, funny nerd, doomed to fail for all eternity (i.e. the Urkel type). Audiences cheer on and laugh at the exact behavior we are condemning.

Post Script: Without even realizing it as I was doing it, I have just typed up a brief synopsis of points raised in the article that started this whole thread 2 years ago.

 

New information has come out that he also photographed the victim's breasts and shared those pictures with members of his swim team.

 

I wonder if there is an opening to bring him back to court on other charges. I doubt it though.

 

CA state has a revenge porn law signed by Jerry Brown. It's only a fine and misdemeanor, but can be considered to be a "second crime" under the statue potentially and upping the jail time.

 

Thanx for sharing. I saw that on Facebook, and I shared it.

This whole thing with Brock Turner horrified me. He deserves a decade or more in prison. He and his dad having the gall to complain about the lenient sentence and how they perceive what he did as practically nothing? It's sickening. They are as low as George Zimmerman, as far as I'm concerned. The affluenza defense is beyond stupid.

After watching The Hunting Ground last year, I felt strongly that universities and the justice system needs to respect all rape survivors, female and male. It seems as though every school has skeletons related to this in their closets.

I heard the full story about Turner. He reminded me of Bill Cosby, since he wanted to brutalize a passed out woman. I'd rather not cuss on here. Sick people don't deserve these privileges. It's as if misogyny is somehow acceptable.

Lately, I've been studying the concept of women raping women and women raping men. It was depressing, but I opted to do so for a class. Also, if memory serves, the majority of rapes in the U.S. are of men because of prison rape. I have no sympathy for apologists of any kind. I hope more people in this country get serious about prosecuting those who are reported for committing this indescribable crime.