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Senate Your Princess Is in Another Castle: Misogyny, Entitlement, and Nerds

Discussion in 'Community' started by Heero_Yuy, May 29, 2014.

  1. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/memphis-megachurch-stands-pastor-accused-154701922.html

    This article shows that many conservative church leaders are still willing to cover up and support sexual predators and child molesters who masquerade as leaders. I contend this occurs in all kinds of churches, given what I've observed and been told during my life. It goes to show that this is longstanding problem that many churches will not remedy. Subjugation of women continues in such social environments, and it's another form of indoctrination we need to denounce as we raise better generations.
     
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  2. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    See, I wasn't even aware of how sexist the Mary Sue label has become. Obviously if people are using it just to put down any strong female character, that's wrong. I completely agree that the label is instead all about wish fulfillment, placing a perfect version of oneself (who often looks like you or has a name close to yours) is what it's all about.

    But this shows how long I've been out of fanfiction and also avoiding most nerd discussions of movies. They're just toxic in general.
     
  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    That’s what it’s supposed to mean: perfect version of oneself. Unfortunately it has become “has powers or plays a specific role without explanation as to why,” with a female character requiring far more explanation than a male character does.

    I say that as someone who understands why people question Rey being so powerful...up to the point where they start whining about how it must be because of a “feminist agenda.” That’s the point at which I think, yep, you’d overlook this if the character’s name were Ray.
     
  4. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Jan 10, 2015
    Kudos to Ben Affleck for apologizing for previous inappropriate behavior in 2003 and acknowledging that all men must be mindful in order to be part of the solution, not the problem.
     
  5. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    What are your thoughts on the Fifty Shades of Grey books and films?

    I read them at the library, and I didn't like Christian Grey because of how he was stalking and controlling Ana Steele, particularly during the first book. I only saw the first movie. I think Dakota Johnson is a good actress, but I don't like the material. The author is too repetitive in her vocabulary, but, then, I'm one to talk, since I can be that way with action scenes in my book. (Dialogue is easier.) From my point of view, there is nothing wrong with women writing, directing, or portraying such material. I believe in freedom of thought, of course, but I can't get over how Fifty Shades of Grey was originally a more extreme version of Edward and Bella from Twilight. I think that young girls ought to be encouraged to aspire to higher things in life than throwing themselves at abusive men whom they shall "cure."
     
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  6. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    It's fiction.
     
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  7. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I don't know what was worse:

    Fifty Shades of Grey or Twilight.

    All I can picture now is vampires with dildos.
     
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  8. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

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    May 31, 2004
    ugh,horrid mental image.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  9. Luke02

    Luke02 Force Ghost star 5

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    Sep 19, 2002
    Fifty Shades is at least funny. Unintentionally of course but at least funny.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
  10. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    it's just Jane Austen with nipple clamps .
     
  11. Juliet316

    Juliet316 JCC Game Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Probably because it originated from the author's Twilight all human AU fanfic. She just published it later as original fiction after 'filing the serial numbers off' so to speak.
     
  12. gezvader28

    gezvader28 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 22, 2003
    I tried reading the first one and I struggled thru 200 pages before giving up , it was so boring , he'd just buy her stuff then take her on expensive trips and they'd discuss the 'contract' endlessly , I expected a lot more saucy stuff .
     
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  13. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    Yes, it is boring! It’s like a disservice to Seattle, among other things.
     
  14. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I read Dave Barry’s review of it and that was good enough for me.
     
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  15. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I'm aware, but it's still a dumbed down version of that. I liked some of the secondary characters in the Twilight series, but I totally understand the criticism that Bella has joined this family/cult that restricts what she can say or do...despite her newfound power as a shield. Fantasy love almost never works out, unlike realistic love.

    I first heard about Fifty Shades because an old friend loved it, but her little sister mocked it with a meme of fifty shades of grey on the street.

    Well, returning to the topic of Mary Sue, as I said, I had never hard that term until 2015. There is a video out now that questions if Anakin Skywalker is a Mary Sue. But what I want to know is why someone hasn't posited this: Is Luke Skywalker [New Jedi Order] a Mary Sue? He is ridiculously overpowered, and Leia is not for some reason. Supposedly, it's because she was fearful that she could become like her father, with emotional roller coasters. But I never bought that because Leia appeared to have better control of her emotions than Luke. Luke's power to do things like manipulate a black hole made him more powerful than Sidious and his father. My question is it because so many Star Wars fans are male that the writers give male characters more attention? I'm not saying that Luke was written properly all the time. He charged right in and killed Lumiya without a proper investigation of her plans. To this day, I still question his willingness to support of Jaina's decision to combat Caedus. I appreciate how Jaina is the so-called Windu of her era, but I also feel that she is often criticized for being too emotional. You don't hear about Kyle Katarn or, ya know, Kyp Durron.

    As for as the sequel trilogy goes, I like Daisy Ridley's portrayal of Rey, and this actress is the bomb, but I question what the [beep] were JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson thinking sometimes when they wrote her. Example: "I bypassed the compressor." Some have pointed to Darth Plagueis's use of the Force during his childhood to explain why Rey is so adept without training, but I don't think that's a good comparison. I am not a Reylo shipper.

    If you can give any examples of OP Mary Sues in any other franchise [male, female, whatever], let me know. This accusation was leveled against Neo in the Matrix sequels, for example.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  16. Diggy

    Diggy Force Ghost star 7

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    Feb 27, 2013
    Loads of people have said Luke’s a Mary Sue.
     
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  17. harpua

    harpua Chosen One star 9

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    Mar 12, 2005
    Gary Stu
     
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  18. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
    "My girlfriend told me I should treat her like a princess, so I married her off to a stranger to strengthen the alliance with France."
     
  19. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
  20. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    At the intersection of misogyny and nerd-dom, can we talk about how not-misogynistic Black Panther was?
     
  21. appleseed

    appleseed Force Ghost star 5

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    Dec 5, 2002
    And also, having strong female characters did not hurt the male characters at all.
     
  22. PCCViking

    PCCViking Force Ghost star 10

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Well, they did hurt Killmonger's plan. ;)
     
  23. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    I appreciate how people on these threads strive to remain professional in tone. However, I think there is an air of homophobia when people critique Daisy Ridley--not from anyone on this website, but in the YouTube community--and it disturbs me. It's quite misogynistic.

    I also believe that Jennifer Lawrence was so right in her criticism of Weinstein. People--not on this site, but elsewhere--had a problem with her wanting Harvey Weinstein in jail. I don't think that should be controversial. Anyone who harms another person, after irrefutable evidence and a trial, should be punished with prison. It's so weird. But, again, I'm thankful for this JCF member site for not going after people who have these opinions. Else, I'm not reading those who do have a problem with it.



    Additionally, I would say that Red Sparrow was a good movie. Personally, I just liked how Jen's character was able to protect herself and her mother despite everything that was done to her. She went through hell. My eyes got wet with fear during a couple of scenes. I just like how she was able to punish some of the people who had harmed her and come out on top. I think the movie is misunderstood. There's a lot of misogyny, but it's not about women winning. It's about one woman getting what she wants--what she and her mom need. And, yeah, I despised her character's uncle. He looked like Putin, albeit with more hair.
     
  24. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    Yes, let's! Obviously a lot of coverage has focused on the racial aspects, for good reason. It's certainly a breakthrough film in that way.

    But it's just as revolutionary in its portrayal of women. Sure, Black Widow and Wonder Woman are strong women, and that's cool. They are strong in the traditional manner, which is to say they are physically gifted, the "male" kind of strong.

    We see female characters like that in Black Panther too. And that's awesome, because the more we see of that the more we will get it into our heads that physical strength and toughness is NOT actually just uniquely or inherently male. It belongs to both genders. Women warriors are a real thing, not just fantasy. And they are all races.

    But Black Panther goes a big step further by also portraying other types of strong women. There's the matriarch who is a strong support stystem for her kids. And of course there is the wonderful, relatable, strongly intelligent and independent Shuri. Basically my hero. I wish there had been a character like her when I was a kid. Because that STEM focused type of female hero (and a POC to boot) would have been a great example to me as a little girl. She would have inspired me and made me feel better about my nerdy self, because here is an awesome female scientist who is also a rock of support for her brother. Love love love Shuri.
     
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  25. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011