Senate Misogyny, Entitlement, and Pop Culture

Haven't you seen Daniel Tosh's standup? No doesn't mean no. No means try again in five minutes. Men shouldn't be raised to be quitters!

 

Whilst I agree with the proposition that "They're all just feigning disinterest" is a bull**** excuse for a man, in mitigation, there are women who not only do this but encourage other women to do precisely this. Playing hard to get is not solely something men have come up with on their own.

 

Since there is literally only one of their positions that has any basis in logic, I think this is valid.

 

Saintheart, do the pick up artists who write those wretched books speak for all men?

 

I didn't say they do. I am also not defending the men who take that excuse - only pointing out that it isn't solely men who think this way, which is just as troubling perhaps.

EDIT: Which is to say that the existence of books like this for women proves that both genders have some shaping up to do on this point. The self-respecting man who has self-control and self-knowledge enough from a grounded Dad who taught him how to behave has no intrinsic need or desire to chase a woman, and he therefore won't waste his time with one who does string him along in the manner The Rules suggests.

 

So what you're saying is there's outliers of diabolical ****s who preach a hyper-aggressive, socially regressive method of attracting a partner in the most purely commercial terms?

Well, I'm convinced. Women, this is all YOUR fault!

Seriously though, I appreciate there are women like this; I think justifying the comments about women feigning disinterest by referencing "The Rules" drops the debate a notch or two and is implicitly unsettling.

 

i think its telling that a lot of those books that give that kind of advice to women... are written by men. often comedians like steve harvey (think like steve harvey act like steve harvey's madonna/whore construct) or greg behrendt (he's just not that into you)

 

it actually uses the words "capturing the heart of mr. right" on the cover. i'm not taking this author very seriously.

 

This is why I used the word "mitigation" rather than "justification" per se. I am not, I repeat, not saying it is a justification for male behaviour of the kind we're discussing, only that it's an attitude both genders have to address.

 

doy

 

I will note, however, that Steve Harvey's book does appear to try and empower women in bridging the difference-in-thought gap as well as telling them to play the field, not settle in monogamy, etc. rather than attempting to value-judge them.

It's also been fairly well-received I believe (and spawned two movies with a very good PoC cast)!

 

oh well if they made a movie out of it then i guess it must be positive

 

Pfffft, you know that wasn't my argument or I'd have used Lolita...

 

Umm that's not true at all. His manifesto lists several friends he had, things he did with them, discussions he had with them, etc. His friend Phillip is now talking to the media and James is definitely mentioned a lot throughout it.

 

to be fair they kind of all got sick of him at various points and stopped associating with him

 

Misoginy is a deep rooted and widespread problem of popular culture as a whole, to an extent so all-encompassing that it's often easy to overlook many of it's various manifestations, because of how deeply ingrained they are.

Consider when even women themselves will perpetuate such terms as "hitting like a girl". Or when Arnold Schwarzenegger uses the term "girly man" as an insult to his campaign opponents and nobody bats an eye. Or when a movie like The Ugly Truth, the entirety of which is about perpetuating gender stereotypes, with the added slant that the stereotypical bad personality traits criticised by the film's narrative are all attributed to women, is produced by a reputable major Hollywood studio and then proceeds to find a mass audience.

Or, worst of all, that it's treated as a legitimate insult by a vast swathe of the population to call a guy, or an action, that is considered effeminate "gay". That one's offensive for several reasons. Not only does it perpetuate the homophobic notion that being homosexual is inherently bad, but it also is based on the misogynistic premise that any action or trait that is considered by the mind of the insulter to be effeminate or womanly in any way is undesirable and disgusting.

 

Fortunately both film versions of Lolita sucked so badly you are relieved of the pressure in any event

 

With Arnold, he was repurposing a SNL skit -- which doesn't make it any better, but he was at least redirecting what was originally parody of him back at someone else.

Also, nothing pleased me more than when the US Olympic Softball team started taking back "throw like a girl." I know they had better commercials, but this was pretty good:

 

To add to this, there's also the tendency for guys to act like watching a "chick flick" will give them cancer.

 

Okay, but what about when girls get dirty, play war, and rough-house? This is why the saying is flawed. It sends the message that little girls who enjoy such play are "tomboys," that they're somehow different from other girls--that their behavior is masculine. It's dangerous and misleading language, and should be eliminated.

 

Certainly true. But it's not like he was unable to make or keep friends, they just saw that he was becoming an unstable, self-absorbed brooding jerk.

 

I never said it was. I realize that these myths are perpetuated by society as a whole, and not just men. I've worked with an organization for survivors of domestic abuse, and one of the first lessons I learned is, society views domestic violence as a hetero sexual man abusing a hetero sexual woman--millions of people are overlooked. The law doesn't even really prosecute lgbtq cases of domestic violence, stalking, etc. These cases are often classified as assault, and punishments/sentences are given based on that classification... so perpetrators are not treated for relationship violence and anger issues. Many of these cases are treated the same as typical bar fights, etc. This organization is open to all survivors of domestic abuse... heterosexual, gay, lesbian, bi, and transgendered. It's one of the few shelters in the US that houses transgendered survivors of domestic abuse. So yeah... I do realize that it's not only a man-made view.

 

NOT ALL MEN!!!

(sorry, I couldn't resist! Yes, I'm a butthead. )

 

Hell, you might as well ask where exactly the assertion that something "sucks" acquires a negative value. Give you a hint, it's not because one's Hoover is exquisitely good at utilising a turbine to remove dust and/or small bits of debris from your carpet.

 

Ooh, ooh! I'm an olympian at this. "Bitch" is a synonym for "complain"!