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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

'Your story is ready, please drive through', Is Fast food Fan fic a bad thing?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by DarthBreezy, May 26, 2005.

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  1. MariahJade2

    MariahJade2 Former Fan Fiction Archive Editor star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2001
    I was going to say the same thing Kit. I really miss all the RR's. They were loads of fun.


    I'm submitting mine eventually, even though it's now 530+ pages long. Because I'm evil.


    Gaaaaaaaaaahhhhh! *gets coding nightmares* *plots vacation time around your submission* ;)
     
  2. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Well, Renata could use more participants in the Dying of the Light one and LukeSkywalker_2001 is trying to start a Notes RR.

    So if you like RRs, go for it.
     
  3. Vongchild

    Vongchild Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2004
    I have to admit I've been reading less than I used to. There's about a million fics with hackneyed plotlines written by people (fangirls... >_<) who just joined in the last fast few months. The general rule around here is write canon characters until you are established enough that people will read about your OCs.

    I genenerally write things on the shorter ends of epics, (Among the Stars is 30,000 words! WOOHOO!) but next year I might have to switch to shorter stories because of the school I'll be attending (don't ever become a genius. Trust me, it's overated, and going to the special high school makes people expect too much of you. :p) It all depends on my workload.

    The population of the boards is switching over from the older members to high schoolers, and we don't have time to pound out 200-page monsters.

    And finding readers loyal enough to keep reading is kind of tough.
     
  4. geo3

    geo3 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 29, 2002
    The population of the boards is switching over from the older members to high schoolers, and we don't have time to pound out 200-page monsters.

    :eek: :eek: :eek: I feel so old now! ;) ;) ;)
     
  5. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2002
    I feel so old now!

    That's because you are...:p :D
     
  6. imzadi

    imzadi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    Short fics can be just as good as the sweeping epics. Of course, I admit that this is generally not the case. However, if younger people (or any others) are posting these sorts of stories it's obviously because it's what they wanted to write and they're proud of it. Some of these will move on to the longer fics if they choose.

    In my opinion, it comes down to the quality of the individual story.
     
  7. Vongchild

    Vongchild Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Some of these will move on to the longer fics if they choose.

    I hope you don't mean the one shots should be expanded. I tried that once. It didn't work too well.
     
  8. TKeira_Lea

    TKeira_Lea Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 10, 2002
    As Ophelia so wisely said, epics hurt! You have to plan and evolve and tie things in. You have to stick with a story over a length of time. Epics in a sense become like a marriage. After the first few months the honeymoon is over and you have to remember that you're committed to the project.

    Another thing about epics is that they become about craft. You have to show not tell.

    Another big drawback to the epic - or what might intimidate people - is the fact that eventually you start to draw away from the comfort zone of canon. Many epics start as canon and quickly go to AU, many new events mold and change the characters we know and love. This requires even more work on the writers' part, ensuring characterization and plot tie-ins work. That can be daunting in and of itself.

    Epics also require commitment from the readers as well. As LadyPadme said, readers tend to float in and out. They read but the responses ebb and flow. The biggest thing to remember as an epic writer is that those readers are probably still there when you're wondering why the responses are down. Inevitably they show up the next week. ;)

    Vignettes on the other hand are like steamy affairs. They're inspiring and fun and require little commitment. They grab hold of you and demand immediate attention (like nasty plot bunnies latched onto your leg).

    And while perhaps there tends to be a lot of Vader, Padme, Obi introspection pieces from one scene or another, often tell and don't show, I think that the lack of anything more than a short-term commitment to a viggie makes them the perfect case to do that type of writing or experiment, simply have fun.

    Kudos Breezy for a hopping thread that's all fun =D=

     
  9. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Sometimes expanded one shots can work but usually they are constructed to be exactly that, one shot. Epics and even longer short stories have a very different structure to them, even the language is different.

    I have to agree with imzadi, though. The quality of the story is more important than length.
     
  10. MariahJade2

    MariahJade2 Former Fan Fiction Archive Editor star 5 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 18, 2001
    So if you like RRs, go for it.


    I miss the days when I could. :( If I had the time I would, as long as it's in an era that I'm familiar with. It's taking all I have right now to keep up with DRL and the Archive.
     
  11. dianethx

    dianethx Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 1, 2002
    TKL, steamy affairs and vignettes. Wow, that really describes them well! :D


    That is another thing about epics. The continuity issues can be a horrible thing to keep track of especially if you are doing it for months or years at a time. And it can be more than frustrating when one of your readers points out the little errors in continuity. I've had to do some quick thinking to cover up mistakes. :p And then try to write around it.


    Would you consider a series similar to an epic in the non-fast food catagory or is it more of a buffet?
     
  12. imzadi

    imzadi Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    I meant the authors could move on to writing longer stories.
     
  13. emimar

    emimar Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2003
    The only reason why I'm posting Starchaser again is because I never got to finish it the first time round and as I'd added some extra scenes and the original thread was two years old, nearly and locked, it just seemed better to start a new thread.

    Short stories are good if you have a flash of inspiration and are in the middle of a long story but the plot bunny just won't let go until you've got it out of your system!

    But I do have to agree that there have been some wonderful ideas for a long epic which have been used in disappointedly short stories latley.
     
  14. red rose knight

    red rose knight Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Story lengths for me are always determined by where the muse takes me. Every story has a defined beginning, middle and end before I start, whether I have an outline or just an idea in my head and as long as the story has a good arc and I can bring it to a satisfying end, it shouldn?t matter if it is one post or a thousand.

    I?ve written my share of 100 post stories and no matter how much I enjoyed them, every single one, I could not wait to get to the end of. I either had to focus on it and do nothing else and just ignore plot bunnies or put big long gaps between chapters so I could explore other smaller stories. That?s why my new writing tactic is to write epics in a series of shorter stories. I find it gives me more latitude to explore the ?bigger story? if I?m not tied to one central plot. If I want to completely switch POV from the good guy to the bad guy for a time, I can do that without the trouble or set up that might happen in a single plot and still be telling the story I want.

    It is also less of a commitment to write a shorter story than a longer story, especially when I am being pulled between my love of SW fanfic writing and my desire to work on something original. I promised after I finished my last big story that I wasn't going to do anything but viggies and shorties. Like a New Year's Resolution I blew it off after only a few weeks. :)

    Time is another factor. I often have to chose between reading and writing so writing will always win. As a reader, on multi-post stories, if I get behind, even two or three posts, I may never get caught back up again, so I am more apt to read viggies because of that.
     
  15. LadyPadme

    LadyPadme Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2002


    The population of the boards is switching over from the older members to high schoolers, and we don't have time to pound out 200-page monsters

    - Every once in a while a poll used to show up in Resource (back in the day when polls were enabled), and they would ask the population age or male vs. female. And I remember the demographics showed that by far the biggest group were 15-19 year olds, making up at least half the population, so it's always been a heavy preponderance of high schoolers. By the time you reach my age we've got the population of an endangered species.
     
  16. Vongchild

    Vongchild Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Am I the only person who uses the boards as a way to gain experience as a writer before working on publishable (is that a word?) stuff? The whole reason I started fanfiction was I felt my style needed work. I stayed because the community here is amazing and no matter what odd hour you are on, there's always someone else on to talk to about the proper characterization of a Noghri. :D
     
  17. LadyPadme

    LadyPadme Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 26, 2002


    There are plenty of aspiring writers out there, and I think fanfiction is an excellent way of working on improving elements of grammar, plot, characterization and descriptions. The only main trap that I find with fanfiction is that it allows the writer to be lazy in something that is vitally important in writing original fiction, which is that we don't have to create a world. The setting is already created for us. Even in stories that feature mainly OCs, the stories are still bound by the GFFA, rather than a universe of the author's own making.
     
  18. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Stephen King once equated short stories to 'a quick kiss in the dark from a stranger', and novels to love affairs (he said he was "****ing married to the Stand!" :p )

    I see them as thus,

    Most viggies;

    A quick hello as you pass in the street.

    Short stories (3 - 4 post): A quick passionate kiss in the dark.

    Short stories: (5 - 15 post) a holiday love affair, like a week in Cancune or Europe.

    Short Stories; (16-30ish post) A summer romance, that sometimes turn into "Same time next year"...

    Same time Next year; The reader and writer establish a long term relationship with the characters. The story will become part of a series which they wil return to time and time again.

    Me with 'Endgames' (which has about six short stories total plus the odd viggy) Geo3 with Step into my Parlor through Winds of Change and currently with Ring of Fire, DarthLex and The Skywalker Prophecy...

    These stories will often spawn Children of their own (IE Knights and Eros Bound, Brother Mine)

    Epics; Pick out the curtains, you'll be celibrating your golden aniversary before you know it.

    TKeira_Lea, Legacy, NYCitygurl; Family Ties, GunraysLawyer and To Absent Freinds. Dianthx and Betrayal....

    You get the idea... :-B




     
  19. Healer_Leona

    Healer_Leona Squirrel Wrangler of Fun & Games star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2000
    I love viggies... as one with limited time to look over all three fanfic boards boards I have to say I love the influx of them, grateful even.

    I appreciate a well done vig that fully satisfies me. Do I wish it were longer? Yes of course, but quite honestly, I feel the exact same way on any story I've followed. With viggies I at least am aware that this is it when I start it, no hidden surprises of not being completed

    And that would be the worst thing about epics. I've read a number of wonderfully drawn out fics masterfully done that outlast their authors. NOthings more frustrating then following a long fic for it to just peter out in pages upon pages of ups and where are yous. I'm not talking about fics that for whatever the author has not been able to continue, more those that the author has completely disappeared from the boards. (Any epics I've followed over the last years, I more than willing to wait for the author to return to... hint, hint ;) :p )

    This doesn't mean I don't read the epics, though granted not as often as I'd like to.

    NOw with the release of ROTS I knew full well to expect more viggies, certainly on the Saga bopard because we were given something new and exciting again that stirs the imagination and creates those sudden, rabid bunnies that appears with each movie.

    As a writer... that muse is sadly pretty well exhausted so I couldn't say one way or another. Though I've done a number of viggies for challenges and my only other continuing one could in no way be considered an epic. [face_laugh]

    I also couldn't help but smile at Kit's post about RR's. Those were all the rage when I first came to the boards and are what really got me inspired and meeting new people. Of course there were fewer people here and most of us all were newbies at that time.

    LOve the thread here Breezy.

    Vignettes on the other hand are like steamy affairs. Exactly!!! They're meant to make you wanting more!!!

    It's the variety of epics, viggies, short stories and drabbles that make this a wonderful place to read. There's something for everyone. If the current fad of writing isn't to your taste just wait awhile, it'll change.
     
  20. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    I tend to get bored as a reader and lose track after about 10 - 15 chapters. I guess I need to learn more patience. This format is hard for the long story, IMO. Of course this depends on the amount of comments in between the posts, and the author's posting schedule. Call me a commitment-phobe, I guess. (You wouldn't be the first ;)) In both What Choice Remains and Circle of Light, I've went farther than I've ever went in terms of story length, but that's because my co-author Trace stands behind me with a whip and threats of a Force choke. In Anniversaries of the Heart, I started wondering where the characters were going and what end purpose of the plot was and stopped at 10 posts. This is my only problem with both reading and writing epics, sometimes we get so mired down in the tedious that the story doesn't move along. I know how tempting it is as a writer to just keep writing this story, as you get so attached to characters. But at some point, a story has to end. And I've seen way too many on these and other boards that should have ended 10 - 20 chapters before they did. IMO as a reader, of course.

    That being said, I've fallen into the trap of the instant gratification provided by viggies way too much myself. That's why I was determined to go out of my Anakin/Vader and Anakin/Padmé comfort zone and write Anniversaries of the Heart. I was scared stiff of OC's and anything not written with my co-author longer than one or two posts.

    I agree with geo in that the short story has really been under rated, and that's what I'm doing now. I'm going to keep it to 5 - 10 posts, hopefully. But if I find in outline form it go longer without dragging the plot and characters into quagmire, I may move it to not-so-short story. ;)

    EDIT: 55 edits later, and I still can't spell.
     
  21. VaderLVR64

    VaderLVR64 Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2004
    I love to write vignettes. Why? Because there are times when a longer story is just such a drain. I'm in the middle of writing, either by myself or with a co-author, five LONG stories, and planning on taking part in two other very long term projects. Just the thought sometimes makes me want to ask myself "What was I thinking???"

    I would say the same characters show up because, let's face it, that's who wanna know about! Can you ever really have enough Vader?? :D

    I will admit that I find myself looking at several of my viggies and thinking. "OH, I could do so much with that story line!"

    I have the beginnings of three very long stories sitting in my computer. They're taunting me.

    Sometimes I think we write what we are capable of writing at the time and we are at the mercy of our muses.

    At least I am.
     
  22. VadersMistress

    VadersMistress Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 7, 2004
    I'd rather read a well written viggie than a poorly written short story. Size Matters Not.
     
  23. DarthIshtar

    DarthIshtar Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001
    LOL that you loled about the fear of rejection thing. I remember getting about halfway through Lest Ye Be Judged, then killing a main character. I had 3 people announce that they were boycotting my story from that point forward. It was the first time I really felt a pain that wasn't related to writer's block or angst about that story. You always take a risk with things when you decide to write an epic. If it's a canon, you have to face the rejection of your characterization, fitting into a timeline or somesuch. AUs are even worse for me, since you have to continue to believe in the little bit of madness that you've created all on your own. Sometimes, it gets very hard to do that.
     
  24. rhonderoo

    rhonderoo Former Head Admin star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 7, 2002
    Sometimes I think we write what we are capable of writing at the time and we are at the mercy of our muses.

    At least I am.


    This is for certain, at least with me. I have ROTS Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker bunnies all over me, and I've started about three. But then the muse runs off in another direction. *sigh* Stupid muse. I should turn the breather off. ;)[face_laugh]
     
  25. ZebulaNebula

    ZebulaNebula Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 10, 2005
    Vongchild, you're not alone. I'm also hoping to go pro some day.

    For me, the hardest part of writing anything is the title. My flagship piece shares its title with more than one other story on this site. In fact, I think there's a piece by an author here that also bears its name. I wracked my brain for a day and a half for a better choice, and finding none, used the working title. I simply couldn't come up with titles for vignettes. [face_idea] Hey, a funny idea just occured to me. Find a piece with the same name as one of yours and read it.
     
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