Your Thoughts On Desert Storm II: VOTE

Discussion in 'San Diego, CA' started by Xtant_Tyranus, Mar 18, 2003.

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  1. AnakinWisler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    Um...Dude, they are hardly "children." When they joined the Military, they knew that this was possible. I plan on joining when I am finished with college. I fully understand that I could be killed in a "war" like this and would do so without regret.
  2. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Why do you need to consent? It was their choice to join up, their choice to put themselves in danger.
  3. ValueROCKR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 3
    it is their choice... your right...

    its a personal belief i have... i dont like the idea of another man dying for me... the least i can do is make sure hes going into danger for a greater purpose....

    what if after this war we find out Saddam wasnt as big a threat as we thought? what if more reports come out after wards indicating false information....

    i agree with Bill Maher... if someone attacks us then we track the attack back to the country it really came from ie. whoever gave them the weapons and attack them....

    if cuba had attacked us wed have know the attack really came from comminist russia....

    same idea... hold the people making it possible responsible.....
  4. AnakinWisler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    what if...what if...what if... [face_plain]


    What if we drop this topic and go back to something we ALL love and agree on... STAR WARS!!! :D
  5. ValueROCKR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 3
    so your willing to go to war with out the real facts? because our government has not given us all the information they have
  6. AnakinWisler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    If my government asked me to? Yes. :)
  7. Epicauthor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2002
    star 4
    i agree with Bill Maher... if someone attacks us then we track the attack back to the country it really came from ie. whoever gave them the weapons and attack them....

    I agree. We CANNOT attack first! what does that say about us. If I wasn't American, I might be prone to think that we are acting no better than Saddam.

    The only reason we fought Germany was because Japan attacked us. Then Germany, and ally of Japan declared war on us. SO we declared war on Japan and Germany, but the MAJORITY of our fighting was against Japan. The RUSSIANS and British were the ones who mainly fought Germany in Europe.

    So if not for the RUSSIANS half of Europe would be speaking German.
  8. Padme_Anakin_Fan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2003
    star 2
    This thread is going in circles. 8-}

    I agree with Ani.

    Why can't we be friends,
    Why can't we be friends,
    Why can't we be friends...

    Ok...so I can't sing. 8-}

    Let's drop this topic and go back to talking about Star Wars. :D

    I [face_love] Star Wars
  9. ValueROCKR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 3
    If my government asked me to? Yes.

    i dont know what to say man... to me thats a terrible loss... i would not want to see any man make that sacrifice like that...

    like i said man i dont know everything about this... i just dont want to go to war without knowing the facts.... im all for war if the facts have been made public....
    in this case not everything hasnt been laid out on the table...

    my point here is that with the current facts and reports coming out i think we may be acting hasitly.... thats all.... if more concrete evidence came out that would put to rest the doubts in many americans minds thered be no reason to oppose the war....


    im all for the US protecting its best interests... but in this case i feel we may be neglecting the most dangerous threat... and im not able to make that decision as to whats more dangerous because we arent given the straight story....
  10. AnakinWisler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    You have presented some interesting points. Hopefully all is good. :)
  11. Padme_Anakin_Fan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2003
    star 2
    Hmmm...what was DarthBrian's trick again?

    Oh, yes, I like cheese. 8-}
  12. AnakinWisler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    [face_laugh]

    Mmmmmmmmmmm...mozzarella [face_love] 8-}

    Actually that's used to get people back on topic...I think. ;)
  13. Arma_Geda-Mandalore Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 3
    I would like to apologize to those who felt insulted, and extend a heartfelt "thank you" to those who contacted me with votes of encouragement.

    I have read, and continue to read, many inconsistencies in the arguments against our nation's actions. I would attribute this to simple lack of knowledge. In addressing this, I would strongly recommend for all parties concerned to take the time to read what is located at this link. It not only shows how we have always been as a people, but eerily predicts much of what we are again facing today. To those who have forgotten history, and would be doomed to repeat it, I submit; http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/7-2-188/188-22.html

    There have been things said here in reference to WWII. Many of these things have been blatantly wrong. There's no other way to put it. I have lived as close to and with WWII as anyone who was not there can. I am the first American-born son of immigrants whose entire families went through every minute of that experience, starting on May 10, 1940(time to do a bit of sleuthing :) ). A cousin was killed on the first day. I was raised on the accounts of the attrocities, the sufferings, and the ultimate deliverance of an oppressed people unto freedom.

    Let it be known, that MOST of the fighting, in direct contradiction of a previous statement, was done by the US. Many forget the North African, Mediterranean, Pacific, and Atlantic campaigns when they simply think of Saving Private Ryan. Losses stand at over 300,000. With military cemeteries and their gleaming white crosses stretching endlessly across Western Europe ....American crosses, I might add. And I cry like a baby every time I walk among them.

    I wish to bring up the story of many Vichy, or german-sympathetic French, soldiers when confronted by US forces. Most of the time they would capitulate easily and gladly fight for Free France. I think this may occur in Iraq as well.

    Russia owes it's very existence to the US for it's WWII experience. I will bring up Lend-Lease, and if you are unaware of this plan, find out about it. I won't do all your homework for you :) . The famous T-series tanks that ultimately would spell the destruction of the invading german armored divisions, was a direct descendant of an American innovator's idea. His name was Walter Christie. To say they did most of the fighting is just plain wrong, and I'll write it off to heat-of-the-moment typing. They may have done most of the dying, but not the fighting. Russia was our ally, and we helped them immensely in their own struggle with germany.

    In closing, I see many connections between our current state and that of the early 1940s. I won't post anymore emotion-backed messages, but will submit facts when I feel they are pertinent. Most here know little about me, and even those who do know me, are little aware of my background. Suffice it to say that when speaking of WWII and historical warfare in general, one has entered my arena.
  14. ValueROCKR Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 3
    opps soory

    meant to send a PM not post again :p
  15. tk-7603 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 3
    ok i think that someone cannot judge us if all they have attended since inception of this group was comic-con and maybe 1-2 other meetings. Active members only can insult active members...so as i was saying...



    mmmmmmmmmmm...rigatoni! mmmmmm pizza.... mmmm mokey covered pizza, bad monky and cheese coverd pizza!
  16. me-gonk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!#*)!&$)(&@)$&@$
    I can't take this anymore. I tried to ignore this thread and keep my mouth shut, although I've been getting the updates. The problem with this is there isn't enough info for anyone to know if they are right or wrong, PERIOD!
    The government is notorious for only saying what it needs to and claims all kinds of reasons for not laying it all out on the table. The media is only there to get the ratings and have given up on reporting facts or checking them. MSNBC is firing anybody who makes them look to liberal in a time of war, 91X used to be anti war until their parent company said -no we're pro-war-and started having pro-war rallies and suddenly the station changed it's stance, without a good explanation...simply because "we did".
    This is SICK!
    The US is sitting on more WOMD than anyone else but yet we feel it is our right and duty to tell others to get rid of theirs. And to make this sicker, the US had been THE ONLY country to USE THEM IN AN ACT OF AGRESSION....not once BUT TWICE!
    Bush & CO are working to deny human rights of it's citizens, some of which we've had laws to protect that they are working to overturn. Take a look at the Amnisty International site if you don't believe me. But here they are demanding that others stop.
    About our troops...I come from a family with a lot of military or civil service. But let me say this, they knew what they signed up for. If they didn't they shouldn't have been allowed to join. As for the families left behind, again, they knew what their spouse did when they married or when they signed up after the marriage. This is a choice that was made by the person and therefore I have no sympathy that they are now doing their job. What I do have sympathy for is that their chosen job means they could very well get killed or hurt. But I think it's sick that that is even a job description.
    A lot of people have already argued some of the finer point of this that I would say but I see no reason to rehash it. There seems to be no right or wrong side anymore, there is just the blind ignorance that our government has left us all in and for that I am sad and sickened. I swear, I'm moving to my own little island where I can get away from this! I hate being manipulated!!
    Alright, I'm off my political soap box....can we please talk about something nice now.
    I vote for locking this thread and calling it a day.
  17. me-gonk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    mmmmm...we had pizza last night.....my favorite...
    still have some left over...
  18. Arma_Geda-Mandalore Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 3
    Iraq, it has been proven without any doubt, has used weapons of mass destruction on AT LEAST two occasions. Going by your guidelines of multiple uses during the same conflict, I will say NUMEROUS times. We may remember the Khurds in Northern Iraq, but we usually forget the Iranians during the War between those two nations.

    I would caution you to be wary of how you toss about exclusive domain to the users of wmd. Thousands were gassed on both sides during WWI. The concept is far from new.
  19. Arma_Geda-Mandalore Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 3
    An interesting point to note, taken from Donald Rumsfeld's recent address, is that there are currently more nations aligned with the coalition to oust Saddam than there were during the Gulf War. And the number seems to be growing. Perhaps they haven't been listening to the radio stations or visiting the Amnesty International website to learn the truth. Somebody should tell them.
  20. me-gonk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2003
    star 4
    This is from Jon-

    Last night, in front of the Federal buildfing, several local church groups met to hold a candle light vigil. You will be relieved to hear that they were protesting the war. The protesters were from local communities in and around the downtown area. They were peaceful and quiet. The SD Police dept., claiming that the protesters were blocking traffic, showed up in force. The police where in FULL riot control gear serving as intimidating shock troopers. They literally terrified the bejeezus out of the church groups. The majority of the protesters fled in panic in the face of an oppressive and overwhelming police force hell bent on terror...and opression.

    Please post this to the SW club. And anyone else you can think of. It is of interest. I am also not the only one who has noticed the radical shift in 91X's policy.
  21. foxbatkllr Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    I'm sorry but that is the silliest thing I've heard. It's like those protesters who were complaining about people giving them nasty looks. In a mob, things can tend to get out of hand. The police just want to be well prepared.
  22. OddeBogodde Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2002
    star 3
    so what some of you are saying is that we should just leave Saddam and the Iraqi's alone right? ok....

    I'm sure the Iraqi people and the Khurds won't mind being oppressed at all. The only reason the Iraqi people don't cry for help is becuase that are SCARED to. The Khurds are being wiped out for Saddam's personal little genocide....gee...a man like that definately should be allowed to have WOMD. Why not, its ok that he ACTUALLY USES them. I'm sure the world would be a much safer place if we just left Iraq alone.

    I'm mean yeah we have them, but we dont' try to wipe out entire peoples. The only time we have used them was in the middle of a WAR, not a pre-emptive strike to rid ourselves of someone we don't like.

    we're at war. Deal with it. Arguing and complaining isn't going to change a thing. Go have your candlelight vigil. Our soldier's may die, some definately will. Don't want your nations soldiers to fight for something you don't believe in? too bad, immigrate to Canada, they don't fight anybody.

    If the UN continues to ignore oppressive dictators who ignore people's human rights, the US has no choice to stand up and SLAP them around. It's our duty, by god, and humanity to stop such things.

    LONG LIVE THE JIHAAD!!!!! :eek:
  23. AnakinWisler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    ^ Good job, OB. :D

    The US is sitting on more WOMD than anyone else but yet we feel it is our right and duty to tell others to get rid of theirs.


    But we're not going to use them in a threatening manner like Iraq. [face_plain]

    . And to make this sicker, the US had been THE ONLY country to USE THEM IN AN ACT OF AGRESSION....not once BUT TWICE!

    We saved more lives of OUR troops by using them. Who's side are you on, anyway? :confused: A ground assault of Japan would have been devastating. Many soldiers would have needlessly lost their lives.

    I swear, I'm moving to my own little island where I can get away from this! I hate being manipulated!!

    Bye! :)
  24. jawajames FF Pacific RSA President/Chapter Rep San Diego, CA

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2002
    star 6
    "If the UN continues to ignore oppressive dictators who ignore people's human rights, the US has no choice to stand up and SLAP them around. It's our duty, by god, and humanity to stop such things. "

    so how come we didn't intervene militarily on behalf of the oppressed against the humans-rights-violating leadership in Romania, Rwanda, Sierra Leone, Israel and Palestine, or China?

    you can argue the humanitarian principles, but then you have to wonder why US action is applied arbitrarily.

    Will things get better after the regime change (if we can pull that off)? Turkey will still oppress its Kurdish population, and unforntunately, I don't see the US redistricting Iraq into having a separate Kurdish state in the north.

    as for how big our coalition is --- whoop de doo. I'm glad Albania is supporting US action against Iraq with their 70 non-combat troops. Netherlands gives political support but can't contribute troops. The human-rights loving Uzbekistanis and El Salvadoreans are also on our side. Makes me feel better.

    2003- 31 nations, plus 15 'unnamed' countries
    1991- 34 nations (including Taliban controlled Afghanistan), UN support.

  25. OddeBogodde Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2002
    star 3
    honestly, the only thing that REALLY bothers me about this war is the gas prices, and then my best friend can't get out of the marines, he was supposed to be discharged last month after serving his 5 years but now he is stuck in Japan for who knows how long.
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