San Diego, CA Your Thoughts On Desert Storm II: VOTE

Discussion in 'Pacific Regional Discussion' started by Xtant_Tyranus, Mar 18, 2003.

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  1. CessnaDriver Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    star 2
    "Why do we continue to use those *expletive deleted* double-rotor helicopters? I don't understand why we continue to use Vietnam-era helicopters when our other technology is so much more advanced?"

    Dont even ask how old the B-52 is. Unfortunately accidents happen. It could have been mechanical or problems associated with night navigation in the desert, illusions, sand, or mechanical failure. It is an extremely challenging flight environment, add to that stress of combat and fatigue the pilots could have been experiencing as well. Keep in mind we lost a Very new Blackhawk helicopter and crew recently here in the states and a Pavehawk just yesterday crash landed in Iraq (crew ok). A new airframe is no guarantee of safety. The V-22 Osprey should replace the CH-46. They are very good at determining what causes accidents in aviation, Im sure they will find the cause. Their lives were not lost in vain. They were protecting every one of us and were on their way back from a mission. I always take pause and deeply realize at hearing news like this exactly where our freedom comes from and how much it costs.
  2. Arma_Geda-Mandalore Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2003
    star 3
    You have provided pertinent information in support of your stance.

    The only thing I am really getting from your repeated reference to North Korea, is that you have been itching for a war all along, and we just happened to have picked the wrong one for your tastes.

    The naked truth is this;
    For all their PROPOSED actions, North Korea has, as far as we know, not used wmd against another sovereign nation or even it's own people. It has not sworn a holy war against us that will pit every fanatic unto their death for the cause. They have not resorted to shredding their own citizens, or treating their women like garbage.

    I don't have all the answers to your Korean question. No doubt from anyone that they are poised to deal out some bad news for us if they saw fit. The point is, they haven't yet, and Saddam has. Whether he had anything to do with 9-11, you can bet he was dancing, clapping his hands, tossing pinata candy in the streets, and flashing his man-breasts at the cameras when the news reached him.

    Chopping down a diseased tree begins with the first swing of the axe. This week, the axe started ringing. Perhaps a future cut will be in the name of North Korea.

    Let's just finish this one first, hunh?
  3. ValueROCKR Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 3
    itching for war? thats puttin it bluntly but im all for protecting our best interests...

    I also find it hard to believe that Iraq has a holy war against us... Saddam strikes me more as the give me power because i like it guy than the Holy Crusader like Bin Laden...

    has anyone heard this anywhere?
    First of all, the little al-queda-Iraq link IS being supported. The man Abdullah Sheik Muhammed who masterminded the 9/11 attacks has papers saying he is a Kuwaiti citizen. But guess what? A lady on Fox news was on today talking about what Saddam did in Kuwait (the massacre). And what comes to be is that the real Abdullah Sheik Muhammed is dead. His papers were stolen by the person above and has taken over his identity. The person we now know as ASM is an iraqi citizen who is also a spy for Saddam Hussein. A couple of other terrorists caught also are iraqis posing as Kuwaiti's and Saudi Arabian's. This is no bulls*** this is fact. When all those people in Kuwait, during the first Gulf War, were slaughtered. The Iraqi's seized all the possessions of the dead, including identity

    some one posted that on another message board and im not sure if its true or where he heard it but i thought id present it incase soemone here has any knowledge of its validity
  4. ValueROCKR Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 3
    it wont let me edit my above post right now so heres what i wanted to puyt into it

    EDIT: let me rephrase, though he used the term jihad it doesnt seem to carry the same impact as when Bin Laden uses it.... Bin Laden is a radical religous figurehead whilst Saddam just seem to be an ordinary dictator corupt and cruel i dont see him as having a bunch of religous clout... where as Bin Laden is very charismatic and weilds a bit more influence in the holy war dept IMO.....
  5. tk-7603 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 3
    I love reading the IE Boards about this! as they pretty much are KIDS! They have interesting feelinfs about all this! Perhaps weshoudl wander over and check them out! But please do not post wordy things on their boards!
  6. AnakinWisler Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2002
    star 4
    [face_laugh] Let's take our "battle of opinions" over there too. [face_devil]
  7. Sith_241 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Geez were gonna get invaded at the IE!

    just for clarification, i looked up the total US forces in Korea and it is 36,000 troops. Not too bad, except N. Korea has like 500,000-1 million troops. Also, when i say gut punch, i mean with a nuc, not troops.

    About the comment that the V-22 Osprey should replace the CH-47. No it shouldnt, its not really that great an airframe, for one its really inefficient and secondlt can carry only about half the payload wieght of a CH-47, Im a subscriber to Aviation Weekly magazine and have been reading about the problems of the V-22 for some time. If they updated the airframe it would be a better aircraft, but as is it stinks.
  8. Darth_Vegeta Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    From what I remember in the news last year, the Osprey has had as many problems as the CH-47...at least up at Pendleton anyways... We need SOMETHING BETTER! That's my point.

    Edit: It's like the Space Shuttle...we've been getting by with the same technology for far too long. It's obsolete. We need somthing more safe and more economical. We'll never win any war if we shoot ourselves in the foot with antiquated technology...
  9. CessnaDriver Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    star 2
    Im sure you meant CH-46 not 47.
    And I need to correct my reference to the crashed "pavehawk" to "Pave Low". Staying
    up too late watching news.

    I suscribe to AWST too. Guess that makes us both experts ;) I believe the V-22 will be deployed
    but not after continued testing and further fine tuning. No question development has been problematic and extremely expensive including loss of life. Dick Cheney tried to cancel the program when he was Defense Secretary. The Ospreys development is pushed as much by military need as politics.

    From a past issue of Aviation Week this year.........

    "Operationally, the replacement of CH-46 helicopters with the Osprey should allow the Marines' to move greater numbers of forces more quickly from the ship to their operating location ashore, said Navy Capt. John W. Snedeker, commanding office of the USS Iwo Jima."

    Extensive testing is still pending.......
    "The V-22 flight test program consists of three aircraft at Naval Air Station at Patuxent River, Md., and two at Edwards AFB, Calif., for the special operations CV-22 project. A fourth MV-22 is about to head to Patuxent River, which is slated for a full contingent of seven aircraft to support the test program. Testing is expected to run at least 15 more months and encompass about 1,800 flight hours. Since the return to flight, the MV-22 program has logged about 180 hr."


  10. Darth_Vegeta Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    /\
    I was just referring to what has been mentioned above. The front and back rotor chopper (I think it's the Sea Knight) and the Osprey are outdated, faulty aircraft. This has been proven in countless accidents. I just think we should be as technologically prepared as possible before entering a war. This recent accident (as well as the many others in practice missions) proves to me that we're not. Now if we had troop transports like those in AOTC, we'd be set... ;)
  11. GreyJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2002
    star 4
    Just keep this in mind: Government contracts are awarded to THE LOWEST BIDDER. Been there, done that, glad I'm out of it.
  12. Sith_241 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Sorry, meant ch-46. But maybe un apdated pave-low would be a good airframe until something new is designed. In fact, im majoring in Aerospace engineering...maybe ill design the dang thing. But the idea of the rotating wing is a good one, just needs to be made more commercially viable.
  13. Stridarious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 6
    I like what AnakinWisler said back on page 1 when this discussion first started.

    The only thing that evil needs to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

    if an attack was not made more attacks would follow agianst our part. But, I do not, as some here agree, with war. I mean many die and few live. as my teacher says, "Missles don't choose who they kill, they kill everything and anything in their paths..." But its too late now to say differently, now all we must do is pray for those who are over there fighting, and support our men to the best of our ability. :) Pray that God would keep them safe and bring them back to their families soon, and unscared. pray that God would give our president wisdom and decernment to handle these issues in th Middle east well, so that many do not fall victim to this agian. And finally pray that through this all would come to see his love and glory. :)
  14. tk-7603 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 3
    except out missles DO choose who they kill. I should know, i was a "rocket scientist" in the army. Multiple Rocket Syatems Crewmember / M1A2 Abrams Commander
  15. foxbatkllr Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 27, 2001
    star 6
    Our missiles can hit a mailbox...
  16. tk-7603 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    star 3
    EVEN BETTER, OUR MISSILES CAN GO INSIDE THE MAILBOX AND WAIT FOR YOU TO OPEN IT! :)
  17. ValueROCKR Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2002
    star 3
    ^ yeah i saw those new smart tech weapons that can even calculate the trajectory of shrapnel... thats amazing....
  18. Sith_241 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 4
    Yeah, amazing what our hardware can do.
  19. Stridarious Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 6
    Thats all good and well, but, what if there was a mis-judgement in coordinates? Or a missle was dropped too soon? I know that these new missles coldeasily knock on your back door, but just saying the above scenarios, what would you say would occur?
  20. CessnaDriver Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2002
    star 2
    Innocent people will die. Whats your point? Its a war. There is nothing that can change that. Were doing the best we can and the first time in all of human history never has any force ever tried to be so careful before. People are going to die. I can assure you that massive numbers of innocent people have been murdered, tortured and brutilized by the regime we are removing then the small number of innocents hurt by our war efforts. Now that I have heard of the methods being utilized by Saddams terrorsts goon squads I am even more certain we are doing the right thing. This regime is sick and and absolute abomination to humanity.
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