Your thoughts on the saga forum

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by halibut, Jun 19, 2009.

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  1. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    We're at a new age and a new beginning in the SW world, so I'd like to hear your thoughts on what this forum should be.

    At its heart, this forum is about the saga as a whole and that will not change, but I'd appreciate hearing what you guys think should be the driving force. I may or may not agree, but I'd still like to hear what you guys like to say.

    I'd also like to hear any suggestions on how to improve the forum, which includes fun ideas. For example, we've already had the OT and PT top 100 scenes. I'm planning on doing a saga top 100 scenes.

    So say what you like here, but please let's not get into bickering :)
  2. Boba_Squeak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2007
    star 1
    This thread is a nice gesture. I appreciate the transparency of it, too. :)

    I'm going to think on some ideas, but in the meantime, may I suggest pinning this to the top of the forum? :-B
  3. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I won't pin it just yet as to be honest there are less than a dozen active threads at the moment and this thread will be noticed easier with the odd bump rather than being stickied :)
  4. Boba_Squeak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2007
    star 1
    OK. I'm still thinking here. [face_thinking]

    I'm male. It takes a while. :p
  5. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Heh heh. There's no rush!
  6. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    I'd like to see more focused threads. Instead of the giant "OT vs. PT" free for all, I think discussions and debates would be better served if things were broken down more specifically ("An examination of Saga dialogue", for instance, or "How effectively are heroes portrayed throughout the Saga?") It seems like a couple of years ago this forum more closely adhered to its mission statement of providing a home for "in depth, analytical discussions." These days the forum seems to be drifting towards a standard SW community type thing with threads like the aforementioned "OT vs. PT" bonanza, a thread about which lightsaber color you'd choose, a thread about what your fan fiction version of Star Wars looks like, a (rather dubious) thread about how "The Force Unleashed" will be the next Star Wars film, etc. From what I recall in my more active days in this forum a couple of years back, the above threads would've been closed for not really fitting in with the purpose of this forum.

    On the other hand, if stuff like that is what people are most interested in around here, I'd definitely consider deleting the mission statement from the top of this page, and possibly even merging the Saga forum with the Star Wars community forum.
  7. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    Following up on that, I'd go so far as to suggest floating the idea (I know it's been floated before, but perhaps it's worth revisiting) of merging CT/PT/Saga into one board. I mean, none of them gets much more than a handful of threads updated a day.

    With some room freed up, we could bring TV and EU under the SW&LFL header, too. I mean, I know it would probably make the site feel smaller, but it would also be more convenient.
  8. Boba_Squeak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2007
    star 1
    Whoa! I don't agree with that proposition, at all. Although the forums aren't as active as they once were, there's still thousands of threads and hundreds of thousands of posts in the CT, PT and SAGA forums, each. If everything was frozen in place tomorrow, it would still make sense to leave those forums alone, simply for the benefit of making searches that bit easier. The existing structure seems very neat and logical, to me.

    What might be worth doing, although rather trivial, is possibly bumping the SAGA forum to the top of the "Star Wars Films and Lucasfilm Projects" forum list, since the saga is now complete and might be seen as the more fruitful area of discussion. Lest anyone think I'm showing my bias here (I'll concede I probably am), this is only one idea. I would say, at the least, it's always been a bit odd, to me, that the "Community" forum (per the description: for the discussion of SW that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else) sits intrusively between the CT and PT and SAGA forums. Shouldn't it come either directly before or directly after all of those, but not in the middle of them?

    Those are relatively aesthetic concerns, though. Or you could say: "good house-keeping". Your idea of merging the forums is certainly a lot more substantial than my trifling suggestions. But I really have to dissent from the sentiment that it's necessarily a constructive action. On the other hand, you could say that having these separate forums contributes, in its own small way, to the divisiveness inherent to SW fandom, it seems. Merging them could ease tensions and get everyone engaging more. Then again, it might hack people off. To put it rhetorically, would it do more harm than good? Bringing the EU and TV forums under one heading would be a nice touch, though, I think.

    Still, even all that might be getting too far off the beaten path. I think halibut wants us to be focusing on internal SAGA matters; the SAGA forum, is, after all, his jurisdiction now. A saga "Top 100 Scenes" sounds really cool and I hope it goes ahead, but I don't think too many list-like threads would be very healthy for this forum. Where possible, you need to promote discussion. And that's where it gets murky.
  9. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    With a "mission statement" like "in-depth, analytical discussions that bridge the entire SW Saga", the Saga forum has such great potential that it sucks to see it get dragged down by certain threads that are overwhelmed by negativity, personal attacks, and beatings of dead banthas. But as long as the discussions here keep that intended focus in mind, and also the fact that it really is for the whole Saga, I think it can still be great.
  10. Gary_Buchenara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2009
    star 3
    I think any thread in a whole-saga forum which promotes discussion and particularly comparison is potentially going to lead to criticism. I really think that's inevitable and if it's not allowed there's really no discussion at all. Just a cyber-cheerleading team.

    Perhaps the key lies in being quite specific about titles and initial posts. If these were fairly carefully set up, at least there'd be a time and a place for everything and people would know what they were getting into ... and shouldn't get into.
  11. EHT New Films Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2007
    star 6
    Criticism does not equal bashing. ;)
  12. Gary_Buchenara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2009
    star 3
    I couldn't agree more and most people would claim to share this view. The problem, though, it would seem, is that there is a great variation in how different people define each of these things.

  13. ezekiel22x Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2002
    star 5
    I'd say that fair criticism looks like:

    "Anakin's portrayal as a hero in the PT doesn't work for me: here's why (goes on to cite examples)."

    "The Death Star II sequence in Jedi is well-executed, but ultimately I think it was very poor writing to do something so obviously similar to the first film's iconic finale."

    While some things that aren't necessary (or constructive) look like:

    "These people won't admit that they enjoy the PT even though it is terrible."

    "The only reason these people can't enjoy the PT is that they don't understand it."

    Obviously, I'm basically giving examples of the films/fans rule. It seems simple enough, but for some reason Star Wars conversations have a way of straying off into flame war territory.
  14. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Good point about the OT vs PT thread. It seems to cover a LOT of topics with tangents going off all over the place. It probably could do with a few spin-off threads. For example, does someone fancy starting a "were the Jedi noble and heroic" thread (or whatever's actually being discussed :p )

    As for merging boards, that's not gonna happen so no need to worry about that :)
  15. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Let's stay away from using actual posts as examples as that has the potential to end badly ;)

    I am certainly not saying that negative opinions of the PT will not be allowed. Of course they are. And I'll try to address some questions raised in other threads.

    What's the difference between criticism and bashing?

    Criticism is what was posted above. Negative criticism should give reasons for why you feel the way you do. Nothing wrong with that. In fact it's encouraged. Bashing is basically coming out with blanket statements such as "Teh prequels sux!11!11!1", or using every single post to post disdain for the films without offering anything else. I think we can all see where and when that happens.


    The guiding principles I want to see for the forum are

    1) post, not poster. When you type up your reply, look at what you are addressing. Are you addressing what a poster has said, or the poster themselves.

    2) films, not fans. Similar to 1) and 3), but in a nice alliterate nutshell :p

    3) No one's opinion is wrong. By it's very definition, an opinion cannot be wrong. Facts can be wrong, but not opinions, which leads us on to

    4) Respect. Respect peoples' opinions even if they differ from yours. It would be boring if everyone had the same views on things. It's the differences that make these boards what they are, and that's healthy. But be respectful and things will go just fine. Don't try and force your opinions on others, but listen to and respect the differences. If you go into discussions with an open mind, you might just pick up on something you hadn't thought about or realised before.

    These guidelines apply to everyone. Those who like the PT, those who don't, those who think Greedo shot first, those who like Hayden at the end of ROTJ.
  16. PoodooWarrior Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2005
    star 1
    I always thought TFN boards should be broken up in 3 boards:

    Saga Forum- All talk involved in the 'context' of the 6 movies, that includes the SE. All talk is in the context of how Lucas views the movies currently.

    OOT Forum- All talk involved in the 'context' of the 3 movies from 77-83. No talk of SE, PT, or more changes Lucas wants to make, everything is in the context of 'Han Shooting First' and Sebastian Shaw as the force ghost.

    Star Wars '77 Forum - All talk involved in the 'context' of just how the movies was perceived in 1977. No talk of Vader being Lukes father, sequels, or even Episode IV, just the standalone movie that changed movies forever.

    This way you won't have to worry about different fanbases inflitrating each forum. If I want to talk about the OOT, unless a Saga fans wants to talk about the movies in that context, then they won't post in the thread. Same goes for the Saga forum, if someone wants to talk about Sebastian Shaw, no need to post in this forum.

  17. Gary_Buchenara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2009
    star 3


    And may I request:

    5. Consistent application of these guidelines?

  18. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    Everyone is treated the same :)
  19. Gary_Buchenara Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2009
    star 3
    Then I don't have anything to worry about. :)
  20. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    As a former manager of this forum (as Vortigern99) alongside Darth-Stryphe, I won't pretend to have any greater degree of insight into its workings than any regular poster here, but I do have some thoughts on the subject of proposed changes to its format.

    The legend at the top of the text bar no longer applies to Saga forum, and has not for some time:


    This forum is for in-depth, analytical discussions that bridge the entire SW Saga. This forum DOES NOT ALLOW: "What if?" Threads, Humor Threads, Favorite Lists, Game Threads, Speculation Threads, Movie Sequel Threads & Topical Threads.


    We clearly do allow Humor, List, Speculation, Sequel and not-in-depth threads, as a perusal of the first couple of pages will reveal. This is because people like these kinds of threads, and to pretend otherwise is to ignore the workings of the fan mind and heart! These rules began to be relaxed during my tenure here, under Stryphe's guidance, based on the need to attract more members to this forum.

    I suggest we start with officially scuttling these confining requirements, and allow members to post the same kinds of threads and messages here that are posted in the PT and CT forums, but which appertain to both trilogies, without this out-dated and unrealistic rule hanging over our heads.

    There's my two Republic credits. :cool:
  21. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
  22. DarthPoppy Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2005
    star 4
    Hey Mods, who posted this? That user account is a sock of mine from like 3 years ago or something, when I used to be a regular here, and I did not post it? This is reaally strange, I chedked the accounts post hisory and they reaally are mine, it is not a coincidence? How did this happen?

    I mean to say I am PoodooWarrior, and I did not post this!
  23. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I'll look into this. Can you PM me with any details you have?
  24. obi-rob-kenobi4 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2007
    star 4
    I miss this: "This forum is for in-depth, analytical discussions that bridge the entire SW Saga."

    The saga forum IMHO use to be one of the best places on this site for deep, smart, interesting and serious discussions about symbolism, recurring themes and deep meanings of different topics that go throughout all the Saga. Now it has topics like "what's you favorite lightsaber color?" -_-

    See what i mean?

    Why bring casual stuff like that in here when you can post topics like that in the community section or other places on this site?

    Im just suggesting that if there is any way at all the powers that be can re-structure the saga forum to be more focused on serious, discussion on deep ideas and points rather than lists and games it would make this place awesome and exciting again.

  25. goraq Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2008
    star 4
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