Your ticket to salvation?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darth-Seldon, Aug 15, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    I don't know if there is a heaven.
    I don't know if I can trust the Bible.
    I don't know if there is a hell.

    Anyway I'm going to go all Martin Luther on you all and shake things up.

    What if you don't need to believe in God to be saved? What if all you are judged on is your actions and your deeds not your beliefs.

    For example there could be a wonderful person, someone who helps others, volunteers their time and is kind to everyone. This person with high morals does not believe in God.

    There could be another person who is a terrible guy. He lies, he cheats, he steals and he hurts others. However he has a lot of faith in God.

    So would the first guy go to hell and the second guy to heaven? If anything I would think the reverse.

    What if all you are judged about is your actions and how you feel about them. Not your belief in God?????

    Just some thoughts.
    And if God forgives everyone then perhaps both men would go to Heaven.

    -Seldon

    V-03 EDIT: This is a discussion that has been had numerous times before in the Senate, and I would rather not see a return to the recent interlude when we had a flood of related religion threads. So....I'm going to lock this :).
  2. MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    star 4
    Faith vs works, or whatever it's called?

    I cast the nasty atheist vote for neither giving salvation.
  3. dizfactor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 5
    i'm not sure this needs its own thread, but hey:

    I don't know if there is a heaven.
    I don't know if I can trust the Bible.
    I don't know if there is a hell.


    neither does anyone else, despite what they may claim. personally, i think the evidence is against all of it, but other people feel differently.

    What if you don't need to believe in God to be saved?

    saved from what? why do you believe you need to be saved in the first place? what does "salvation" mean? the way you answer these questions will more or less determine your answers to the others

    What if all you are judged on is your actions and your deeds not your beliefs.

    For example there could be a wonderful person, someone who helps others, volunteers their time and is kind to everyone. This person with high morals does not believe in God.

    There could be another person who is a terrible guy. He lies, he cheats, he steals and he hurts others. However he has a lot of faith in God.


    not to speak for anyone else, but most Christians, i think, would argue that sincere faith would be demonstrated in deeds, and that if you're consistently acting in a way contrary to the teachings of a particular religion than you're not really a believer.

    So would the first guy go to hell and the second guy to heaven? If anything I would think the reverse.

    OK, then you probably aren't a Protestant. different faiths have different views on this sort of issue.

    What if all you are judged about is your actions and how you feel about them. Not your belief in God?????

    what if you're not judged at all, except by yourself and your fellow human beings?
  4. darthtuttle Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2004
    star 4
    I don't know if there is a heaven.
    I don't know if I can trust the Bible.
    I don't know if there is a hell.

    I've had my doubts about God, but I do see what he's done for me.

    What if you don't need to believe in God to be saved? What if all you are judged on is your actions and your deeds not your beliefs.

    For example there could be a wonderful person, someone who helps others, volunteers their time and is kind to everyone. This person with high morals does not believe in God.

    There could be another person who is a terrible guy. He lies, he cheats, he steals and he hurts others. However he has a lot of faith in God.

    There is no such thing as a good person. Everyone sins. I do it. Can a person believe in God and have morals. That's a tricky area. I can believe the Bible is true, but do not want to live the lifestyle. I don't have to let the spirit change me. I'm not a great theologin.

    And if God forgives everyone then perhaps both men would go to Heaven.
    Forgiveness is a gift, that has to be accepted.



    By beliefs about salvation:
    It can only come through Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for our sins. You may, believe in a god named "God" but what about Jesus. If you believe in Jesus, what do you believe about him?
  5. Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 1999
    star 7
    saved from what? why do you believe you need to be saved in the first place? what does "salvation" mean? the way you answer these questions will more or less determine your answers to the others

    I think that's the crux of it. If you believe that "salvation" is necessary because people are all filthy and will suffer in a future life if they don't behave in this one, you've already said that you buy into most of the Christian dogma and believe in Christianity's brand of divinity. So, in a way, isn't this thread sort of circular? Only people who are Christians think some sort of salvation is need and can answer these questions, and the way they answer the questions pretty much depends on whether their division of Christianity is one that emphasizes faith or works. The thread is an opinion poll. :p
  6. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    If you believe that "salvation" is necessary because people are all filthy and will suffer in a future life if they don't behave in this one, you've already said that you buy into most of the Christian dogma and believe in Christianity's brand of divinity.


    That presumption is incorrect.
  7. Darth-Seldon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2003
    star 6
    By salvation I meant getting into heaven.

    I personally love humanity.

    A man can not believe in God but still be a good person.
    A man can believe in God and be a terrible person.
    If there is a heaven which one or will both be "saved"????

    -Seldon
  8. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Maybe actions speak louder than words and ideas, but which actions guarantee a spot in paradise?

    The Islamist terrorist might believe that killing infidel will win him a guaranteed spot in paradise.

    The Christian fundamentalist terrorist might believe that killing abortion doctors will gaurantee him a spot in paradise.

    Imagine how confused they'll be when they meet each other in heaven.
  9. JediTre11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 25, 2001
    star 4
    So thoughts are nothing without actions, and actions are of less value without pure or good intent. Sounds like this applys outside relgious doctrines.

    Lutheranism, gotta love it, just for the relative simplicity.

    There could be another person who is a terrible guy. He lies, he cheats, he steals and he hurts others. However he has a lot of faith in God.

    If someone is true outwardly to their inward faith, then they wouldn't lie, cheat, steal or hurt. That would be a direct violation of the doctrines he has faith in. No, he wouldn't be saved. Paying your dues does not make you a member of a club.

    The first guy would not go to hell. Resorting to Dante's vision, he would land somewhere in between Paradise and Inferno. It seems all that he would need to achieve salvation is an open mind and not have renouced completely the idea of a creator. And that if something did create everything (an odd sentence), that that something would deserve some kind of affection or love. Which is an interesting question...if it were proven that a God did create everything, and gave humans the ability to reason, and be saved wouldn't you love him? Or at least thank him? Thats a big if, but it would take a serious depression case to say no, to hate life so much that they are not in the least thankful for one part of it.

    This is all beside the point....

    Paging 3500 word post, thread on God, paging 3500 word post to the senate floor please.

    Edit: For the record, I have nothing against the possibility of a creator. It is the church that I can't stand.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.