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You're a Sith Lord!

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by TaradosGon, Jan 30, 2011.

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  1. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Feb 28, 2003
    ROTS, when Palpatine tells Anakin that he knows the Dark Side of the force, Anakin is pretty quick to jump to the conclusion that he is the Sith Lord that the Jedi have been looking for. Looking at the films alone, there is nothing wrong with him jumping to that conclusion.

    But now, in this Overlords episode, that conclusion is jumped to at the drop of a hat.

    When Luke is confronted by Obi-Wan's spirit in the OT he accepts it pretty readily. And when Qui-Gon confronts Obi-Wan in Overlords, after the initial shock and confusion, he seems to accept it. In contrast, when Anakin sees what as far as he knows is Shmi, he storms back to the Father, lightsaber ready and accuses him of being a Sith Lord. The witches of Dathomir are also capable of a supernatural powers, and there really was no evidence that Shmi's appearance had anything to do with the Force specifically, nor that the Father was behind it, and apparently he wasn't.

    Then when the Son merely drops a reference about the Chosen One prophecy, Obi-Wan and Ahsoka are pretty darn quick to assert that he is Sith.

    In ROTS, Palpatine claims he knows "the nature of the Dark Side" and explains that as part of an effort to understand the mystery of the Force, he had embraced a larger view, one that implied that the Dark Side was just a part of. Seemingly a balanced view given what is explained in Overlords. Mace knew the Dark Side surrounded Palpatine, yet the idea that he could be Sith never crossed his mind, and even when Palpatine starts talking about Sith legends, Anakin doesn't even draw any conclusion, even when all it took for the Son to draw Obi-Wan's suspicion was simply mentioning a Jedi prophecy.

    My point is that with Overlords preceding ROTS, it seems like it took less for the Son and Father to be accused of as being Sith, whereas Palpatine had readily shown knowledge of Sith legend and had the Dark Side "surrounding" him, and claimed to even have been taught the nature of the Dark Side, nobody does anything.

    I'm wondering if this kind of thing will just be overlooked and never really made sense of. However, I think that this arc would offer a good opportunity to address this. These "Force-wielders" are above and beyond the abilities of the Jedi and can seemingly read thoughts and perhaps even anticipate future events given Ahsoka and Anakin's "visions."

    One thing that would really be cool is if they somehow offered Anakin a vision of the future and of Darth Sidious who would appear as his post-transformed self (how he is depicted in the OT). This would explain why Palpatine can get away with so much. Because the Jedi know that Dooku is one Sith Lord, and the other is some old hooded, disfigured guy. That would also explain why everyone is pretty darn reluctant - including Mace- to accept that Palpatine could be the Sith lord, and in addition it would explain everyone's lack of surprise when Palpatine transforms/becomes disfigured in his fight with Mace, he is becoming the individual that the Jedi knew to be the Sith Lord.

    Of course all the episodes of Season 3 are already completed, so it's not like such a thing can be written into this arc if it is not already there. But really, I think it would have been a great opportunity, and if they had not exploited it, maybe there will be another opportunity in some future episode to incorporate a similar idea (e.g. Talzin's crystal ball).

    A simple vision taken out of context would still allow TCW, when shown chronologically with the films, to throw off new viewers into thinking that Palpatine is still a good guy, and would still save the reveal that Palpatine is Sidious - something that Filoni has said a lot of kids have not picked up on - until ROTS.
  2. Illi

    Illi Jedi Youngling star 1

    Apr 14, 2010
    What you have to remember is that Obi-Wan and Anakin had only JUST met this Father and Son when they accused them of being sith lords, whereas Anakin had known Palpatine for well over half his life by the time of ROTS. Palpatine had planned things very thoroughly from the beginning, since before TPM, and certain characters like Mace and Obi-Wan only started to become suspicious of him by the time the war had begun. Palpatine by no means made it obvious he was a sith lord until ROTS, using the dark side to strongly cloud the jedi's vision. They barely picked up any trace of the dark side in him, so this 'elusive sith lord master' they'd been looking for since TPM couldn't have been Palpatine, in their eyes.I think it's totally justified that Anakin jumps to the conclusion that Father is a sith lord. He had brought the jedi to the monolith using ancient jedi transmissions, kept them there against their will, seemingly used the force and caused Anakin's dead mother to appear in front of him. Since they'd skills with the force seemed so honed, they had to have been trained in the ways of the force, so it is easy to think they are sith.

    So to make myself clear, it's more the familiarity and trust that Anakin has with Palpatine that makes him take longer in thinking he's a sith, unlike this unknown force-wielding stranger.
  3. Darth_Tarkus

    Darth_Tarkus Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jan 10, 2011
    I know I am, but what are you?


    Keep in mind when Anakin learned that S.C. Palpatine was aware of a Sith legend, he was much more concerned with the fact that the Sith legend might be his only means of saving his wife than the fact that someone he's trusted for years knew a Sith legend. As we all know Anakin is the only Jedi who really trusts Palpatine, and since he kept the knowledge to himself because he was so conflicted over what to do about it he didn't tell anyone who wouldn't have such close ties to the S.C. who could have put two and two together, if you will. To be more concise, Anakin was the only one who knew and also the only one who really trusted him.
  4. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Jan 23, 2011
    I think it is the fact they are actively looking for the mysterious dark lord they know is the true ?puppet master? of everything which is happening... problem for the Jedi is they have no idea who it is. As such anyone who they know isn?t Jedi and who has ?force knowledge? will immediately be labelled as a ?Sith Lord?.
  5. episodenone

    episodenone Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jun 13, 2001
    I totally agree with a lot said in this thread.

    I also think it might help to get a refresher on what the thinking was in "Labyrinth of Evil" as to what rationale might have been leading towards Palp = Sidious - which I read so long ago that I can't remember it.

    But also, taking the Rule of Two into account...
    Quinlan had his suspicions
    Plo Koon thinks a new Sith Lord may have been created
    Dooku already stated that the Supreme Chancellor was the other Sith
    Obi-Wan thinks Son is a Sith
    Anakin thinks Father is a Sith
    We have guys like Sora Bulq to consider
    Assaj wields a Lightsaber and yet no one ever gives her enough credit to imagine she is the Second Sith
    Mother Talzin may not act Sith enough -- but she sure does some wacky stuff and Darth Maul has been traced back to her homeworld

    I mean, we have an AWFUL lot of accusations going around...
    And no one figures it out until it's too late.

  6. Swashbucklingjedi

    Swashbucklingjedi Game Winner star 5 VIP - Game Winner

    Oct 3, 2010
    Dooku says Republic is ruled by the sith and hundreds of senators are under his influence - he didn't say Palpy is sith- palpy could've been controlled by the sith also- Dooku don't say chancellor is sith- jedi had their own conclusions and Mas Amedda for example had influence on Palpy and many senators he was potential sith as well as Palpy's advisors like Sate Pestage, Kinman Doriana, Sly Moore ... if sith wouldn't have been chancellor himself it could've been one of those and Palpy would be just puppet- or then some influental senator also could've influenced hundreds of others and therefore control the republic in secret- chancellor is leader of the senate but senate is leader of the republic and Dooku was talking before emergency powers nothing clearly indicated he would've mean just Palpatine himself.....
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