Lit Zaarin's biggest mistake

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Andrelious, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. Andrelious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    (Grand?) Admiral Zaarin was, as many of us know, an excellent strategist. He did, however, make a few errors, largely due to his own flaws.

    But, his biggest mistake..why did he not develop the TIE Defender in secret? Without Defenders, Vader and co would not have been able to have prevented his coup de'tat.

    He /probably/ had the Secret Order watching him, but he was a particularly tricky bugger..I'm sure he could have pulled it off.
  2. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    His biggest mistake? You are, of course, forgetting the bit about betraying His Imperial Majesty?






    If he'd bothered to read comic books, he'd learn that it never turns out well.
  3. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Zaarin's big mistake was not cloning himself....

    ... or did he? [face_thinking]

    He would've gotten away with it, if it hadn't been for a meddling TIE pilot!
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    I believe the exact words Zaarin used were, "You shall pay for your insolence, Imperial stooge." (TIE B7M5).

    ...boy, I'm on a random citation kick. Usually I just say things and ask people to take my word for it. :p
  5. stung4ever Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 2
    He fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war on Jabiim" - but only slightly less well known is this: "Never go against Thrawn when death is on the line"!
  6. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    I really feel like Ackbar made it out pretty well against Thrawn. :p
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  7. Draconarius Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2005
    star 4
    Zaarin's biggest mistake was that he should really have read the instruction manual before taking that cloaking corvette for a spin.
    Last edited by Draconarius, Sep 27, 2012
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  8. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Yep. Not dying=spectacular success :p
  9. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    By the standards articulated above... yes.


    I think Gamer #5 emphasized that Zaarin had gotten his hands on some 'miri, or something? Otherwise, I'd have to imagine Zaarin would be in for a rather rude awakening when the Emperor was brought to him...
  10. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    I tend to think ysalamiri are overrated. Even if you have enough of them your average Jedi (let alone Palpatine) is still an excellent swordsman, and wouldn't be fool enough to not have his sabre on him. And, you know, stormtroopers. I'm sure there's emergency codes for an attempted coup that'll turn those boys on you in about .5 seconds if need be.
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Zaarin had Arden Lyn, who is a teras kasi master iirc. Stormies never had a chance. He actually was kidnapped, after all.
  12. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    If there's Ysalamir involved, Arden isn't much more than what physical skills she possessed as well. Sure, no stormies, but Palpatine isn't really the crippled old man he pretends to be; I don't doubt for a second that he could easily use his lightsabre with or without the Force.

    Edit: Plus, he actually is kidnapped. That's not going to happen with the most powerful Sith Lord ever unless it's exactly what he wants to happen, IMO.
    Last edited by DarthBoba, Sep 27, 2012
  13. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    I'm not sure Lord Vader would've rushed to his rescue unless he believed there was a legitimate danger, nor would the Secret Order freak the heck out. I haven't read the Gamer article in a while and don't have it with me, but I think Abel said that the Emperor was legitimately incapacitated.

    edit: That is to say: His Imperial Majesty is completely infallible and omnipotent and was never legitimately threatened by anybody, ever.

    edit2: Except for the time I accidentally blew up the shuttle he was on... my briefing officer kind of had a cow when that happened.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Sep 27, 2012
  14. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

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    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Lord Vader's interior thoughts in the ROTJ novel show pretty clearly that he wanted Palpatine alive for at least a while longer; I think he felt a need to have Palpatine around to legitimately demonstrate why Luke should kill him, as opposed to Luke simply offing Palpatine in the heat of the moment. He'd presumably have saved Palpatine if there was any real danger-Palpatine's death isn't something Vader wants anybody but Luke to be responsible for. I've never read the Gamer article unfortunately.
  15. GrandAdmiralJello Community and Lit moderator person

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    Ok, I asked someone about the Gamer article. It mentions nothing about 'miri, and merely says her attempt to kidnap Palpatine for Zaarin was foiled.
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  16. Andrelious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    The problem is that he DID read the instruction manual...Thrawn's team had altered it.
  17. CeiranHarmony Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2004
    star 5
    As for Zaarin, conspiracies and all...

    are the conspiracies linked somehow or should they be?

    Ghost Prison one definitely is a prequel to Trachta's own coup. Zaarin is another big one years later. and then there is the notion of Tarkin trying to replace the Emperor once his Death Star is operational...

    imagine it all being tied together like... this:


    On Tarkin's orders, the Headmaster of the Ghost Prison coup starts to collect a huge followership in all types of ranks and across the entire Empire. The coup works and the Emperors life is threatened but Vader, Trachta and co save him. But the Headmaster plans to betray Tarkin and take the Empire for himself, not hand it to the Grandmoff! To boot, Tarkin's plan did not work since Vader, Trachta and Co met his shuttle before he could arrive on Coruscant. So he had to play loyal after all and could not/did not put his other plans into motion delaying them. Or else he might already have activated other allies like Zaarin (whose tech-development projects rivaled Tarkins or were close enough to make them partners and friends?).
    Years later, Tarkin uses Trachta's coup to once more try to take over with the Death Star nearly complete even. But with ANH and Tarkin's and the Death Star's death, Zaarin waited a few years more before deciding to go at it alone with all the former resources Tarkin had planned to implement, including now even Arden Lyn, secret technologies and projects and followers throughout all of the Empire. I WANT A MAP showing Zaarin's territory during his insurection and how big his operation really was!
  18. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Here's the Gamer 5 quotes:

    "... when the former Emperor's Hand Arden Lyn attempted to kidnap Palpatine, Stele helped Vader rescue his master, thwarting an attempted coup."

    "[Arden's] attempt to kidnap Palpatine for rogue Grand Admiral Zaarin was foiled. Lyn fled..."
  19. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Who says he had territory? His strategy was based on deceit and hyperspace-capable starfighters; openly holding territory just invites Vader and Thrawn to stomp him silly.
  20. Andrelious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    It's certainly never suggested in TIE Fighter that Zaarin has any territory.

    In fact, Battle XI 'The Hunt For Zaarin' suggests he is beginning to have supply problems - perhaps he just performs Rebel style Hit & Fade attacks when he needs stuff?
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  21. Asharak Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 4
    Zaarins biggest mistake was to not convince the player to join his side, with a little luck I could have torpedoed Thrawns Star Destroyer for him. Silly man.
  22. Andrelious Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2012
    He does try. He offers Maarek Stele (who the player represents in TIE) the chance to lead a squadron of TIE Defenders. The implication is that this would have been in opposition to the Emperor.
  23. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    His biggest mistake was trying to overthrow guys who can see the future. :p

    I'm almost halfway convinced the whole Grand Admirals thing (outside of Thrawn) was nothing more than Palpatine deciding to keep people who might pose a political threat to him close at hand.
  24. blackmyron Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2005
    star 5
    Well, some of the Grand Admirals (at least two come to mind) were strict loyalists.

    Zaarin was having to use non-Imperial ships towards the end, and the Imperials were believing that he was forced to use other sources to replace lost ships - but not capital ships. In fact, there's a number of capital ships that were unaccounted for in the end...

    I surmise that Zaarin had a not-insignificant group of the Imperial Navy that would've gone warlord or joined one of the existing factions after Endor (my guess would be that they joined the Pentastar Alignment)
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  25. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    Sure, but since when has Palpatine really trusted anybody? Plus of course the strict loyalists wouldn't be the reason so much as the mask to create the appearance of loyalty.