Amph Zatchbell

I finished the manga 2 weeks ago and I watched the TV series last month prior.

Easily my favorite anime/manga after Saint Seiya and Fist of the North Star. And I've been watching a lot of anime lately (including my 3rd rewatch of Saint Seiya) and I intend to watch/read Zatchbell at least 3X. So tahts saying something of how huge I am a fan of this series.

Has anyone else seen it back in the day when it was airing on Cartoon Network.

ALSO SHERRY BELMONT. She's the primary reason I decided to check out Zatchbell after nearly 10 years since they stopped airing it on Cartoon Network as she was my favorite character and watching some really hot girls in other series namely reminded me of Sherry.

 

You're going to be a popular one, Barkey.

 

I am posting in a crazy font for no reason.

 

Unfortunately the thread appeared blank I had to literally type the whole thing all over again. Sorry for the confusion but there is contents within the message now.

 

Mods plz retag this as arena. He mentions something about a ball. This is obviously amerisports.

 

I dunno, the whole thing struck me as a pretty cliché shonen series - even if it later goes on to subvert any of the usual plot points (though I've never seen anything to indicate to me that it does), it just didn't seem that interesting. Certainly I'd be skeptical of any assertions that it's anywhere near the brilliant combination of goofy setting, quality action, and entirely too serious presentation of Fist of the North Star, which has really only been matched by its own spin-offs.

Er, I mean, man who watches Japanese cartoons?

 

I am sure many people can relate to watching the Cartoon Network for sexual satisfaction.

. . .

 

Sherry Belmont is a well developed character, enough that even longtime anime/manga fans (we are talking about guys who watched Dragon Ball Z 10 X or watched all the latest magical girl series from Tokyo Mew Mew to Puella Madok and are eagerly awaiting the new Sailor Moon Crystal remake) found her very impressive.

She was probably the last action heroine I was a huge fan off before descending into militarism for the last nearly 10 years of my life. She was primarily the reason I got back into Zatchbell after being reminded when I was watching various masterpieces across all medium.

I'd say that without taking the EU into account, she certainly comes off as far stronger and interesting than Princess Leia and gets superior character development.

Hell as a guy who's favorite female casts tends to consist of action girls and ladies of war such as Oscar Francois de Jarjayes, very few of them convey the impressive determination Sherry had done throughout the series while at the same time remaining incredibly graceful and feminine.

First of Shonen isn't a genre, its a demograph. Zatchbell isn't even fighting Shonen which you're probably thinking off, its primarily comedy based (although the fight choreography and battles are pretty deep for a comedy series and a few can even compare to Saint Seiya and DBZ).

The plot is far from generic, it has one of the richest character development I seen in recent anime/manga (by recent I mean from the 2000s).

Also bear in mind the dub really censored stuff and changed a lot of the script dumbing it down for kids.

Its my personal opinion that I rank Zatchbell as my 3rd favorite series (because the overall themes appeal to me). But as popular as it was in the 2000s, it certainly didn't get status of "classic" in the same vein as Saint Seiya, Rose of Versailles, and Cowboy Bebop.

As much as I love Fist of the North Star, I can name many other series that can easily match and surpass the original anime/manga. Siant Seiya for example is superior in its lore witht he original manga and 1980s TV series far superior than the Fist of the North Star spinoffs (which are already excellent taking into account they are meant to be supplementary) in the same criterias you mention (especially the lore and only the battles with Raoh and Souther can compare to the Gold Saints arcs action). Dragon Ball Z is superior to both overall in fight choreography (although the Saint Seiya manga certainly qualify as runner up int terms of intensity in battles to part Z of the Dragon Ball manga).

Yu Yu Hakusho has superior character development too (although I would rank the Kenshiro and Raoh just as well developed as the YYH cast; however YYH puts enough rich development for the minor characters which sadly Fist of the North Star is terrible at developing since even supporting ones like Rei get killed quickly after their debut).

These are only my favorite series and I'm sure someone bigger into anime/manga than I am can provide better examples of series that can hold on their own against HNK overall.

Although I have to admit in terms of hero VS hordes of mooks, North Star qualifies as having some of the best fight choreography and battles . The battles are so over the top and violent I have yet to find another fighting Shonen where I actually enjoying viewing the hero clash against mooks without feeling bored and wishing they'd just go on to the big bad. I would rank it as worthy of being compared to Peter Jackson's LOTR movies at least for quality of small band vs hordes and hordes,

Also some of these Japanese cartoons are so damn successful they ****ing impacted mainstream cultures in certain countries. I won't put an essay but yes waaaay more people watch anime than you think.

Its just in North America we have a stigma animation in general is childish and it didn't make it as maisntream here compared to other countries, exception being Dragon Ball Z (probably the only anime series adults above their 30 even know off).

In countries like Italy anime is maisntream enough that you can find many adults eaching their 30s who love watching reruns of Sailor Moon and frequently purchase the latest issue at he newstand.

This is pretty much the same thing as comics being seen as chilidsh in North America despite how int he rest of the world adults make up a large portion of countries market andmost works tend to be targetted at adults (specifically true in Europe).

 

I've loved Saint Seiya since I was ten. Although the recent Omega series left me kind of cold.

I never liked ZatchBell. Then again, I only watched a couple of episodes. I didn't think it was anything remarkable, as Ramza said.

 

The series starts catching up as you approach the Thousand Mamodos arc. You'd have to get farer than 10 episodes to begin to see just howthe deep the series starts getting specifically in battles and in character development

Also did you watch Sub or Dub? Part of what makes the series is the outstanding voice acting. The cast as a whole is phenomenal in the Japanese version.

Also I wonder how many here tend to rank stories in anime/manga ? Has anyone paid attention to other stuff like art direction or voice acting?

Because many beloved maisntream works and classics like Naruto and Cowboy Bebop are generic work themselves. Even Saint Seiya which I am a diehard fan I admit was very simplistic in its overall plot. I would actually rank Zatchbell as having a sueprior story to Cowboy Bebop (go ahead bash me fans ). Its the execution that really matters. Saint Seiya stood out because of its musical score and intense battles, same with Cowboy Bebop (honestly Bebop is the msot generic "masterpiece" I ever seen).

It doesn't help the dub changed a lot of the spectacle elements such as giving it a stale voice acting cast and changing a lot of the music. Its really the non-story elements that impact the story the most, very rarely will the actual story be able to hold on its own in most masterpieces (save for literature).

 

I wouldn't call the plot of Saint Seiya up to the Sanctuary battle any simplistic. After that... sure, it became "let's run up stairs and rescue Saori again". But up to the battle against Saga... man, that was magic. The thousands of plot twists upon twists blew my pre-teenaged mind.

And I grew up in Spain. All our anime was on mass TV, appropriately sanitized and dubbed, sadly.

 

Also the above things I stated about rating stories don't just apply toe anime/manga they apply to movies, comics, and most visual medium.

In fact Star Wars is even more simplistic than Zatchbell is taken upon surface in terms of overall story But the execution is so damn excellent (especially with the acting and musical score) it easily stands out as a masterpiece despite beinga s generic a space opera as they go.

 

I think you missed the self-deprecating humor in my last sentence.

In any case, I don't think I agree with any of your choices for "superior" series, but then I'm a big apologist Hokuto fan. And I meant shonen precisely in the target demographic sense, because I am a pretentious gekiga snob.

 

I watched my friends play a Zatch Bell video game a couple weeks/months ago. It looked pretty crap.

 

The overall plot is simplistic. Evne Kurumada admits he is following the "Rocky formula" for his story.

Even Rocky, one of the great masterpieces of cinema, is simplistic.

What Saint Seiya does well is the execution especially witht he outstanding musical score,voice acting, epic battles,etc.

And I should clarify I mean the plot is simplsitic. Many masterpieces like Star Wars may be simplistic on the surfaces but excel at specific plot elements like lore, character development,etc.

Saint Seiya absolutely excels at lore. Rocky excels at story theme. I'll stop here because it'd be going into another topic.

 

Well, by that definition, all of shonen is simplistic. You have to understand that when I first watched things like Saint Seiya or Karasu Tengu Kabuto (highly recommended, by the way) the only thing I could compare them to was ThunderCats, Jem and the Holograms or the G.I. Joe cartoon. The idea of a cartoon series having twisted plots, a well developed lore or well, merely being serial in nature without every episode ending with the main characters laughing before the fade to black, was mind-blowing. A simpler time, I guess. But I get what you mean.

 

You do know Zatchbell started out as a manga right? Your comment is like bashing the Lord of the Rings novel because the game adaptations tended to be so so to average or refusing to watch Star Trek at all because all licensed games so far sucked.

And I'm not defending the Zachbell games (they are purely only meant for fans well versed with the series); judging the Star Wars movies because the KOTOR games were masterpieces is just as terrible and nonsense. Especially since gaming is such a vastly different medium from movies and animation in the first place they cannot be judged in the same criteria (and thus is only BS to judge a TV series or movie based on how terrible the game was).

Most stories including literary classics like Moby Dick would technically be terribly simplistic despite how literary enthusiasts would try to put them above Star Wars and other "mainstream masterpieces like "Zatchbell" (sarcasm intended).

However Saint Seiya is mindblowing if you look beyond the overall plot; the lore is absolutely some of the best I seen in anime/manga. Can easily surpass many generic fantasy and Sci Fi novels.

So is Rocky. The plotis even more simplistic than Saint Seiya but the story's theme of underdog, determination, and living life no matter how terrible it gets is absolutely masterfully executed.

Just because a story has a simplistic plot does not mean its terrible or the story is even simplistic.Tolkien is the best example as his language is so rich and he created such a deep world that beyond the good vs evil, you have one of the richest universes ever made in fiction.

Star Wars is another simplistic tale for the same reasons (especially OT).

 

I made no judgements about the manga/anime. Only the video game. Stop being so defensive about Zatch Bell.

 

I honestly thought Zatchbell is what they called Saved by the Bell in Germany. Huh.

 

Its still not an appropriate comparison to say "generic Shonen" because the genres within it are so damn different its inappropriate. Aside from some extended battles and rather rich battle choreography for a comedy and mon series, what in common does Zatchbell have with Naruto and Dragon Ball Z or even One Piece?

Even among fighting Shonen, the styles are so damn different . Fist of the North Star and Saint Seiya are of a much grittier bloodier style than One Piece and they actually are of different sub genres (the latter are truly focused on fighting fighting fighting, while One Piece leans towards adventures and comedy).

I hope you don't even mean to compare A****a no Joe as "generic shonen" simply because the plot is the same at first glance to DBZ and Saint Seiya (which is true to an extent as the overall story is underdog battling much stronger opponents but Ashia is sports genre which makes direct oomparison moots).

Also I hadn't said any of the were superior except for Saint Seiya, I said they were superior in specific elements.Really Yu Yu Hakusho has such rich character development I have yet to see in fighting based Shonen although HNK is int he same league and Raoh and Kenshiro are jus as well developed as the YYH protagonist, and I'd argue Raoh is far superior as a villain to any of the major villains in that series-who are some of the most memorable in fighting Shonen. There is no denying DBZ is the absolute king of one-on-one fight choreography (although I'd rank HNK and Sain Seiya in the same league).

I already stated HNK is my 2nd favorite anime/manga so I still rank it above other series superior to it in specific elements except for Saint Seiya.

I understand how yah feel . I'm borderline diehard HNK fan to. Such to the point I've read so any behind the scenes stuff such as character tiering, the Gaidens, interviews,etc and it sonly the fact I haven't started collecting HNK merchandise nor have I rewatched/reread the series that I can't call myself a diehard fan yet (though I recently started on a rewatch).

Look forward to chatting with you on an HNK thread I will be publishing here soon .

You're mistaken. To clarify more I am referring to the comics Konjiki no Gash Bell which was aired int he US as Zatchbell.

You were the one who brought up the off-topic game adaptations (Ok not so much off topic but its not fair to judge a series by its adaptations especially if its from one wildly different from its source materials such gaming medium) .

 

I'm often mistaken, but in this case I was just being silly. I have no clue what Zatchbell is, and until recently I thought a manga was a fruit.

 

Well that's true. I remember watching some episodes as an adolescent. The designs of the puppets were kind of weird, but it was entertaining enough for the 5-10 episodes I watched. I just don't like puppets all that much really.

 

Why is it that new people have zero sense of humor?

 

Next you'll be telling me that anime isn't making papier-mache animals.