Zekk or Jagged?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by UltimateMandalore, May 5, 2007.

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  1. browwiw Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2007
    star 3
    So...profitability = quality? Then why hasn't Girls Gone Wild been nominated for an Oscar for Best Documentary?
  2. Darth_Lex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 4
    You're entitled to think Rowling's writing isn't good if you want.

    Personally, I agree with the tens of millions of people who disagree with you. [face_peace]
  3. browwiw Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2007
    star 3
    I'll take on you and your army of 12 year olds and middle aged single women with multiple cats any day.
  4. Corusca_One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 24, 2005
    star 3
    There are much, much, better authors of fantasy and young adult novels than JK Rowling out there. The main thing she does well is characterisation, the reader can associate with the characters easily and feel sympathy and other emotions for them. This makes them highly readable, especially as they are not taxing to read anyway.

    Anyway on topic... I'd say i'd like to see Jaina with Jag, it seemed right in the NJO and i'm not sure the whole thing has been handled very well since the end of that series. I do like Zekk, i think he has a lot of potential as a character outside of the main cast and it would be a shame to see him killed off. However he is in the same position as a number of support characters in cult tv series at the moment and his death could potentially be waiting just around the corner.

    If he does die i'd like to see it made meaningfull, for himself or for Jaina, or even the whole Order. Give him a death to be proud of, afterall Ganner got one.
  5. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    I'd still prefer to see Jaina with Zekk, but I guess there is a chance that he could die. I hope not, but if he does, he should go out with a major bang, and perhaps Jaina could also feel it with their bond (the remnants of their Joiner thingy, or whatever).

    If he survives, I guess he and Jaina could have a relationship similar to that of Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors. They are partners, and there is some underlying romantic tension there, but it never eventuates, so they just go on with being friends.

    Zekk has always been a character close to my heart, and I guess that's why I get so defensive about him. Anyway, we should probably call a ceasefire here. Nobody really knows what's going to happen, and we're all getting hostile over it for nothing.

    If anything, we should just hope that all three of them survive and become good friends. The Jedi Order could use an A-Team kind of group, especially with Jacen and his cronies running roughshod all over the place.

    Oh, by the way, personally I find Rowling to be a good author, but LOTF is written by three different people. Think about it, that's FOUR different authors, so you HAVE to expect different styles and directions, even if it's all in the same series, as it is with LOTF.
  6. Zekks_Darkness Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2005
    star 1
    I agree... until she through it all out the window in book six.

    On topic, what's up with authors describing Zekk as some kind of giant? 2 meters isn't THAT tall. I think it started with Denning, though, who is the major writer of Zekk lately, so I guess he's at least being consistent.

    Strangely enough, I think that was the best decision he could have made. IIRC, he flat out told her that she was going dark, and if she was going to continue on that path, he wasn't going to risk falling along with her. As you may notice, that almost happened with Kyp. Different ideals, I guess. I think they're pretty much incompatible. Sadly, Zekk is still stuck with her because of Denning. Zekk has gotten a pretty poor treatment overall through the NJO+ era. Suddenly his piloting skills(IIRC he was nearly as good as Jaina), ability to find things, and other points of interest have just disappeared.

    RIP, Zekk. Your non-giant-ness and non-Jaina-accessory-ness are missed.
  7. Darth_Lex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 4
    It is when the girl you're hanging out with most of the time is 1.49m :p Compared to 4'11", 6'6" is gigantic. It's almost identical to the height difference between Leia and Vader in ANH. And he does dwarf her. 8-}

    Actually, 2m even puts Zekk a good six inches taller than Han, Jacen, or Jag, too, and they aren't exactly short. No wonder they think he's a giant. [face_laugh]

    Oh, I agree. For Zekk, who already had struggled so much with the dark side himself, he couldn't risk letting Jaina drag him back down into darkness along with her. But in abandoning her to protect himself, he also made a choice about how much he was willing to give up for her...
  8. ThrawnRocks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 6
    Yeah, a lot of the characters in the EU are pretty short. Almost all the pilots we see are shrimps, and most everyone else seems to have problems breaking 6" as well. Although as someone who isn't even 6 tall, I have to agree with the main characters on Zekk seeming tall :p
  9. iamobiwan1970 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 2005
    star 4
    Two meters is tall! An average man is about 5'10". Zekk is tall. Jaina is likely not the dumb height she is listed at, but even if she is taller. the difference is huge! :rolleyes:
  10. tal0nkarrde Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2005
    star 2
    Neither. In fact, I've been tinkering with an idea for a fic that would involve neither one of them as love interests. I would have her move on from her relationships with Jag and Zekk and have her move on to a more roguish figure. They do say that little girls always fall in love with someone like their dad.
  11. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    And the guys with each other? *smirk*
  12. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    Neither. In fact, I've been tinkering with an idea for a fic that would involve neither one of them as love interests. I would have her move on from her relationships with Jag and Zekk and have her move on to a more roguish figure. They do say that little girls always fall in love with someone like their dad.
    Funnily enough, that's probably what we could all use. A breath of fresh air. I'm guessing the new man would have to be an OC, right?

    And considering what kind of author Denning is, considering that he is actually writing the last book, I would actually not be surprised if Jaina really does take the solitary route, and tells both Jag and Zekk that she is well and truly done with both of them. Which, when you think about it is probably what is needed all around. The three characters remain friends, but nothing more, and both the J/J and J/Z groups lose, and therefore we all win (strange logic, I know).

    And the guys with each other? *smirk*
    I really don't know how to answer this.
  13. Alpha-02 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 4
    I don't overly care for the outcome, but I would be glad to see this triangle resolved finally. It has been dragging its heels in the backdrop for so long now, that for people other than the big Jaina, J/J or J/Z fans it's just not that interesting. Granted the Fel emperors have made it a little bit more interesting if Jag is to be Fel I, but still, I feel that the story has gone on so long it needs to be dealt with.
  14. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    Alpha, I doubt that truer words have ever been spoken. =D= =D= =D=
  15. Darth_Lex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 4
    Seriously, huh? :confused:

    This supposed love triangle has lasted the duration of 8 books. Out of 27 books in the NJO/Legacy eras. And counting it as seven is really quite a stretch. Three DN and Exile, yes, there's clearly some romantic drama plotline in those. But in Betrayal and Bloodlines, Jag literally didn't appear in the books! In Tempest, Jaina didn't even know he was back (although conveniently she did have a sex dream about him right before he revealed himself to her parents. :p ), and in Sacrifice neither Jag nor Zekk appears "onscreen" (and only two short conversations of Jaina's overall appearances in the book are devoted to the boys). So really it's four of the last eight books.

    For two years of out-of-universe time (TJK was released late July 2005). How is that a long time? :confused: Ask Luke/Mara fans about how they feel about how that romance was treated in the profic...

    BTW: Dark Nest, 3 books. The same number of books Luke was with Callista. [face_whistling]

    Don't forget, in the NJO, Jaina and Jag have a romance that spans nine books (DJ, RD, RS, DW/Yle, FH1, FH2, FH3, TFP, TUF), ten if you count the initial flirting (DTR). It probably feels shorter because the books were coming out so fast; all nine books from DJ to TUF came out between February 2002 and November 2003. More books in less time than the post-NJO Jaina's love life storyline.

    So this supposed love triangle still hasn't gone on for half as long as Jaina's romance with Jag did. I hardly think it counts as a long, drawn-out storyline.

    Besides, there is every indication that Jaina's love life will be resolved in LOTF. Tempest and Exile both contain development on various aspects of the storyline. True, in Sacrifice Jaina claims she's over thinking about the boy stuff - but her aunt just died, and she's traumatized. The pledge wasn't made in a calm, deliberate state of mind; it was an emotional reaction to the trauma, and their last conversation. So it hardly shows her true state of mind or feelings. And regardless, people make pledges like that all the time - and they rarely work. :p It's the old joke - when you stop looking for love is when it finds you. [face_batting]

    Jaina will be back with Jag by the end of Fury. She needs to have her feelings resolved before her confrontation with Jacen in Invincible, and resolving them in Revelation would be too close. (Plus, it's just not Karen's style.) So Troy will move Zekk out of the picture, if not entirely then nearly so, in Inferno. Aaron will write another Enemy Lines style Jaina/Jag romance in Fury. Although I won't completely rule out Inferno doing the resolution. Page 299 of the paperback version of SBS. [face_whistling]

    After Tempest came out sixth months ago, give or take, there was a nice little debate about Exile (and post-Exile) predictions. I wasn't the one who had to eat crow about those, and I like my chances this time, too. So we'll check back in another six months or so, after Fury. [face_peace]
  16. Alpha-02 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 4
    When I refer to the love triangle, I don't simply mean the post J/J NJO relationship triangle that we see in DN3/LotF. I just used that phrase as it is the latest incarnation of Jaina almost having that lasting relationship, the whole never ending story of Jaina's romances or perhaps I should say potential romances, especially with Jag and Zekk. There are hints of potential between J/Z as far back as the early YJK books although it never really materialised then it was still there, then there's J/J for a large portion of the NJO, then there's DN3 and now in LotF it still isn't resolved.

    To me it feels like they're flogging a dead horse...Jaina's going to have a cameo in this book...okay let's have some vague scenes with her, Jag and Zekk which are packed full of hints and innuendos and leave it at that. It may not get a massive amount of attention in books, but the J/Z stuff goes back to when she was around 13, J/J back as far as her being 16, she's in her 30s now, I think that's probably enough time to make a decision whatever it may be.

    If this is resolved perhaps we can have Jaina back as a proper character, rather than little nothings and side roles that get largely filled by this storyline.
  17. Darth_Lex Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2002
    star 4
    Fair enough.

    Still, doesn't much of that feeling (flogging the dead horse) have to do with DN and where we are in LOTF? What I mean is this: let's imagine I'm right, and Jaina is back with Jag in Fury, making the final three books of LOTF solidly J/J. Maybe J/J get married in Invincible, maybe they don't, but let's assume it's clear they're back together for good. So we'd have a J/J romance that lasted the last nine books of the NJO. After that, we'd have three books that repeatedly emphasize that she still loves him (DN), two books where Jag doesn't appear (Betrayal and Bloodlines), one books where Jag appears but doesn't interact with Jaina (Tempest), three books rekindling old feelings (Exile, Sacrifice, Inferno), and three books with them back together (Fury, Revelation, Invincible). In that scenario, the "love triangle" about Zekk ends up being a red herring to what is clearly a J/J storyline all along.

    Now, if that happens, it's a fair question why LFL/DR didn't just let J/J get married after the NJO. Why drag it out twelve more books and ten in-universe years? No doubt they have their reasons, and I have my own theories on what those might be. (A large part of it connected to Troy's still mostly hidden backstory for the J/J breakup...) Or maybe it's as simple as the fact that they wanted a good romance plotline and saw Jaina as the only option; Ben's too young and Jacen's going dark. Certainly romance is a big part of SW, and if Jaina's love life was resolved in DN, there would essentially be no romance at all in LOTF. [face_thinking]

    Regardless, I certainly agree with you that Jaina's role in LOTF so far leaves a lot to be desired. She was a great character in DN, with a role at least as prominent as Jacen. In LOTF, though, she's been stuck on the bench while he falls to the dark side. I really hope Jaina gets an increasingly large role in Inferno through Invincible - and not just to resolve the romance. Her twin brother is a Sith - she needs to play a decisive role in opposing him.
  18. jediking0222086 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 10, 2007
    I have this paranoid theory that Denning was out to get me since he wrote Anakins death and broke up Jaina and Jag. Now back to being serious. I want Jaina and Jag to be together it was that one bright spot in the NJO after Anakin's death. There were others of course but probally do to being in high school at the time it was the one that stuck with me. I was livid when I found out that Jaina and Jag weren't together in DN. Half the reason I bought the first one was to see if there married or together or dating or engage.Instead we get Jacen and Tenel Ka's love child who has to be hidden from everyone. I do hope that Allana will develop as a character but I think Denning screwed up royally with that storyline. Lets introduce a child that barely leaves her room because she lives in a society that will kill her. At least with the Solo kids we could see them get kidnapped over and over again. At this point all the Allana storyline has done was give Jacen an excuse to go darkside. Sorry I am bitter about how Jaina and Jag's relationship was ruined and Jacen gets a daughter.:_| I don't like Jacen and think its unfair.
  19. Furyan_Jedi_13 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2007
    star 3
    To me it feels like they're flogging a dead horse...Jaina's going to have a cameo in this book...okay let's have some vague scenes with her, Jag and Zekk which are packed full of hints and innuendos and leave it at that.
    You know, that stuff sort of provides the readers with comic relief, especially the shippers. What I can't understand is why some people still worry about it. We should just enjoy the humor that is represented in these interactions, and appreciate the overall story. Jaina, Zekk and Jag will probably all have a prominent part to play for the rest of LOTF, and that will probably not include any romance at all, but just romantic tension presented in a funny way.

    Stop trying to analyse things and just enjoy the story. Trust me, it will make the experience more positive.
  20. EvieSolo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2005
    star 2
    None of the above.

    This has been dragged out for too long. There is not a chance for a satisfying conclusion.
    I'm supporting the idea of Jag/Zekk running off together.

    That's exactly why I thought Jaina/Kyp would have made a great couple. He does resamble her father in some ways and is just immature enough to make the age difference less problematic.
  21. Thanos6 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 1999
    star 4
    Bwahaha! A comrade in arms! At last, there are...uh...two of us!
  22. Alpha-02 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2006
    star 4
    I'll join you, as long as it means that Jaina actually gets some important storylines seeing that her twin brother is a Sith Lord and commander-in-chief of the galaxy.
  23. beccatoria Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2006
    star 4
    So now there are four of us? Should we form some sort of support group? Can I be the treasurer?
  24. ThrawnRocks Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2004
    star 6
    Kyp isn't immature any more, and last time we saw him he appeared to be in a commited relationsihp. Plus he's not interested in her any more.


    I still say Jaina/Boba [face_devil]
  25. Zorrixor Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 2004
    star 6
    I haven't read the whole thread. All I'll say is I just hope one of them dies in LOTF so she's stuck with whoever lives and we can put an end to this once and for all. :p
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