Zero Punctuation

Discussion in 'Games' started by DarkPrince, Feb 6, 2008.

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  1. Mustafar_66 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 5
    See, I just wanted to kill members of the Covenant, not play as them. To me it was like MGS2 with Raiden instead of Snake.
  2. The Great No One Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 2005
    star 8
    i guess i'm one of those people that wonder's "what the hell is up with these guys?" and was pleasantly surprised when they decided to give a rather marked amount of insight into that. which they subsequently ditched in the next game.

    honestly, my favorite scene out of the whole series is when chief and the arbiter are grabbed by the grave mind. loved it.

    different strokes for different folks, ya know? not everyone has to agree about everything. be a pretty damned boring world if they did.

    :snoopy
  3. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2000
    star 6
    I believe you. I was just being snarky about my perception of the quality of the story.
  4. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    I also liked what the Arbiter represented as well - the other side's P.O.V and the sudden insight gained by the Arbiter which led to the Covenant Civil War and the redemption of the Sangheili. But boy if most - if not all - of the levels you played as him were boring as hell. But my major - almost unforgivable - beef with having the Arbiter was his almost stealing the thunder, limelight, what-have-you, out of the Master Chief's own bloody game. The last level and boss fight was Arby's, not the Chief's! And to top it all off, the Chief only re-appears in the penultimate custscene which leads to the cliffhanger! A bloody cliffhanger?! Don't you know you shouldn't frakking do that: leave an audience hanging for years on end considering the lenghty amount of time developing a video game takes. And then to add insult to injury, to have that long awaited sequel be the next-gen console seller! You had to buy a buggy newer console in order to Finish the Fight and watch that story's particular end. Thank you so much for THAT, Microsoft.

    As for the weapons and other features introduced there, they're definitely a mixed bag. Having the SMG replace the BR was NOT a good idea; without dual-wielding it with a plasma weapon the SMG was virtually useless. The battle rifle I have never loved; though in a SWAT game (no shields, no radar, no other weapons) it is a devastatingly cheap weapon. The Covenant sniper-beam rifle was a nice touch but it's hardly better than its human counterpart. The energy sword rocked. I so don't care how much it rips off a lightsaber or not; an elegant weapon is still an elegant weapon. The new homing ability of the rocket launcher was pretty sweet; though it effectively neutered long term vehicle combat. Vehicle hijacking is also pretty sweet as well. And, for better or for worse, Halo multiplayer was finally brought online through XBL; creating the mathmaking phenomenon some people love and others loath so much. The jury's still out as far as I'm concerned whther the tweaks made on many of those weapons/features on Halo 3 improved things or not.

    So what do I think? I sincerely don't think that Halo 2 > the other Halo games. It did some things right and many things wrong. Halo 3 is not a better game either because its single player campaign is definitely the weaker part of the game and a lot more focus was put into the multiplayer component. Halo: CE had an immersive campaign which brought quite a few surprises due to the Flood and the threat represented by it and the Halo ring(s) themselves. But it was marred by too much backtracking and similar looking levels. Also, its rushing into production to meet the original Xbox's launch date led to no online component, which meant that if you wanted to play with friends you had to plug in extra controllers to play split screen (that's so much fun) or carry your hardware with you and plug in some network cab
  5. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    It's a lot easier to swallow when you just accept that Halo 2 was about the Covenant. Master Chief was the "filler" character in that game, probably because a torch-bearing mob would have assaulted Bungie's headquarters if MC wasn't in it at all.

    All the plot and character development is from the Covenant side of things. The Arbiter levels were also far closer to the original Halo in terms of atmosphere and pacing. I think this was done intentionally, yet most fans never noticed and to this day assume that the Master Chief sections were most important and what the game was really about. Perhaps this is why so many fans don't like Halo 2.
  6. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    I suppose that's true and I never saw it that way before. I guess that if you added the subtitle "The Covenant" at the end of Halo 2's title then perhaps people would have an easier time accepting the tone of this game in relation to Halo:CE.

    As for the atmosphere and pacing of the Arbiter's levels, again, I find that many were exceedingly tedious and similar to many equally tedious levels of the original game. For example, the "Quarantine Zone" chapter of Halo 2 combines the tediousness of the original's "The Library" chapter, while at the same time maintaining some of the kick-ass vehicular action of "Assault on the Control Room" and "Two Betrayals". Later on, when replaying that game recently, I realized that the one shining break in the tediousness of the Arbiter levels is one that many other players overlooked if they chose to play the game as if you were playing with the MC: the Arbiter -- unlike the Master Chief -- has a cloaking device. This adds a certain (though very limited) element of stealth to his levels that allow you quick getaways around extremely difficult situations as well as giving you sweet opportunities to unleash pain in other situations. That rather fun element was sorely missed on Halo 3 and just for that alone would I call Halo 2 better than 3.
  7. jangoisadrunk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2005
    star 4
    I think the normally called "tedious" levels in Halo: CE and Halo 2 were my favorites. I loved the sense of isolation and discovery those level gave me.

    I really missed the ability to play as the Arbiter in Halo 3 (co-op can go **** itself).

    I'm afraid if they'd actually used "Covenant" or some variant as the sub-title to Halo 2, fanboys would've stormed Bungie's headquarters demanding no quarter be given to the dirty aliens that Master Chief loves to shoot in the face. They pretty much did that anyway after they played the game and realized the dirty aliens were more than cannon fodder. Some people still have forgiven Bungie for it.
  8. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    Heh. I think I used the word "tedious" far too many times. You bring up a good point though. The isolation on some of the levels made things a bit on the uncomfortable or unbearable side; which is why some of us hate those levels. And as despicable as having 343 Guilty Spark as your only companion on "The Library", at least you weren't entirely alone there...




















    Nah, scratch that. Having 343 around was always a pain. I'm so glad you finally got to kill the floating little basterd on Halo 3.
  9. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    I didn't realize I was in the Halo thread...
  10. Jek_Windu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 4
    You are always in a Halo thread. Halo is all, Halo is love. HAIL MASTER CHIEF!
  11. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    (to the tune of "Hail to the Chief")

    "Hail to the Chief, he's the baddest of the Spartans.
    Hail to the Chief, he's the baddest of them all.
    Hail to the Chief, he will slay the alien scumbags.
    And rid the universe of the fell and evil Flood.

    Yours is the aim to frag and keep on fragging.
    This you will do, that's our strong firm belief
    In your image we will follow suit on Matchmaking.
    Hail to Spartan-117, hail to the Master Chief!"


    Yes, if I'm around, you can count on every other thread to degenerate into something Haloish lately. :p
  12. Master_Chief Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2003
    star 1
    //glances at username.

    I support this.
  13. Valyn Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 2, 2002
    star 8
    I really don't understand the hatred for Halo 2. It was the only Halo game with a story.

    Halo 1 and 3 were the generic space marine vs aliens crap. There was some fun gameplay here and there, but I seriously doubt anyone could honestly believe there was any shred of story in any of those two games.
  14. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    Ok, I'll bite: define by what you mean by "story", since the story throughout all games in the series flows from one game to the next and even filled in spaces by some of the novels and expanded literature. Halo:CE is preceded by the prequel novel "The Fall of Reach", which provides the origin of the SpartanIIs and narrates all major events leading up to the first game. Halo 2 almost immediately follows the vents of Halo: CE and the novel "First Strike". Halo 3 almost immediately follows Halo 3. The comic series "Uprising" was supposed to bridge events between 2 and 3 but a change in the game's plot seriously hampered the development of that story and so far the tale of how John-117 escaped the Forerunner Dreadnaught and fell to Earth has not been told in full.

    If by story you mean that Arbiter Thel 'Vadam (yup, that's his name) had far more exposure and dialogue -- or in essence, a tale to be followed -- on Halo 2 than the series protagonist, the Master Chief, well yes, it's undeniable since 'Vadam's discoveries about the nature of the rings and the lie that was the Covenant's "Great Journey" were plot devices that would lead to the schism within the Covenant, the redemption of the Sangheili and lead up to the conclusion of the series.

    The Master Chief was purposefully designed as nearly a cypher since Bungie wanted the player to, in essence, "become" the Master Chief. You inmerse yourself in the role and the story becomes yours. That's why there isn't much more exposition beyond what the custcenes and other characters tell you about the plot/story. As engrossing as the Arbiter's subplot on Halo 2 was, the way the overall story was told throughout all games really wasn't that different.
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Guys: take the detailed Halo "which one is best" discussion and plot analysis to a Halo thread. Let's keep things here as they pertain to ZP's reviews/games being reviewed.
  16. DarkPrince Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2005
    star 4
  17. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    I take it as given that he didn't like it. I definitely concur with him on this: what the frak is an ultra-violent exploitationist game like this doing on the Wii?
  18. Commander_Ducky Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2008
    star 3
  19. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Because people have been waiting two years or more for original titles aimed at hardcore gamers? It's taken developers a long time to figure out how to properly use the Wii, despite it seemingly being a natural choice for FPS and RTS genres, and stuff like No More Heroes and Mad World help fill out the selection while things like The Conduit and Red Steel 2 sit on the horizon.

    Is there a ton of shovelware on the Wii, mostly leaning towards the party game genre? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that is all there should ever be on the system.

    Nintendo basically just took the last year off in terms of major title releases (outside of casual stuff like WiiFit, etc)- it's nice that a couple 3rd party titles like Madworld are finally coming out to make up for that dearth.
  20. Commander_Ducky Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2008
    star 3
  21. Darth-Lando Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2002
    star 6
    It seemed like Yahtzee couldn't make up his mind on this one. First he questions why people make a big deal about games with lots of violence on the Wii. Then he questions what it's even doing on the Wii. Then states he doesn't like violent games that much anyway. That's all well and good, but it seems like he was all over the place on this one. (More so than usual)
  22. Darth_Invidious Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 1999
    star 5
    Eh, I've pretty much dismissed him as a snobbish twit (or the other adjective that has an "a" instead). His reviews are often amusing nonetheless, which is his the main draw of them anyways.
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    He does have the occasional brilliant insight into things, though- even if one doesn't agree with the overall review. That combined with the humor is why I love the "show".
  24. HemDazon90 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2008
    star 3
    the biggest problem with mad world that yahtzee forgotto to mention the fact that it didnt have that awsome song
  25. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Actually, he did- it's in the credits text joke for this episode: "This game is presumeably unrelated to the Tears for Fears song of pretenious Gears of War trailer fame."
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