JCC Embrace The FU - Formerly the STAR WARS IS BAD thread

I won't be revealing any plot details not revealed by the trailers already, however since I am going to say what aspects I thought worked and what didn't, I'm going to put it behind spoiler tag. So:

Spoiler

As is revealed by the trailers, and by the ending of TFA, Rey is training with Luke in this one while the rest of the cast is somewhere else. This part of the story was underwhelming to me. Characters go through changes and growth here that I feel the movie doesn't adequately account for. I felt like we're supposed to go with it because the movie is at that point in the runtime now, and it's time to move to the next plot point. I didn't find this part of the narrative as engaging, and I didn't buy all of the developments. However, it does have some inspired spins that I quite liked, and some aspects add a new level of maturity.

What worked much better was the stories of the non-Force users. Leia, Poe, Finn and some newcomers are the ones that shine in this story IMO. The movie has a thematic throughline that is spoken by the Force users in the film, but I think it's through the other characters that the movie really displays those themes in action, whether by their own actions or by what happens to them. A level of depth and character growth is given to proceedings here that I think is unrivalled in the movies so far. I mean, characters learn lessons here. Outside of Jedi characters, when have characters in a Star Wars movie learned lessons before?

Edit: I should clarify that when I say it's meh, I don't mean that it's bad, or even disappointing. I mean that it's perfectly serviceable. It's fine. Neither bad nor amazing. It's just good. It's okay.

 

Don't read VVM's post. Don't read anything. VVM, we must do this - come with me to the movie forums.

 

Lead the way.

 

I already know what happens.

Spoiler

It's really a sequel to Unbreakable.

 

Here is my dilemma. VVM likes a lot of my posts. But I'm going to have to guess has terrible taste (to be confirmed when I see TLJ tomorrow.

Could it be I post a load of crap?

Edit: Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, VVM just sucks

 

Your mum sucks.

 

And how!

Wait...

You know I lub you, VVM!

 

Hey, dissing the new Star Wars movie is one thing but dissing Diggy's mother really crosses the line. She's a saint!

 

His dad, however, can go **** himself.

 

You wish you had a dad like Diggy, Guy.

 

You know, when I said it was meh, I didn't mean it was bad (I believe I made that clear in the very first post). I just meant that I wasn't blown away by it. It wasn't amazing. But it was a well made film by all means. It was entirely adequate and entertaining.

 

It's official: VVM hates the film and wants 2.5 hours of his life back and, if he could, he would erase his history from these forums.

Others may not understand what you meant, but I hear you VVM. I hear you.

 

Is it really that hard to avoid spoilers? I mean okay, I'm not a big fan of the SW sequels so maybe that makes it easier for me...but even when I do look forward to a movie, it's not that hard for me to stay mostly spoiler-free.

Edit: VVM is a girl?

 

Perhaps it was serviceable in the generic, highly forgettable and ultimately pointless way many other mass produced, over-formulatized, assembly line productions are when they've been sucked of all ingenuity or genuine interest, instead replaced with a reliable evocation of some Pavlovian, profit-generating response that would make the most inhumane behaviorist proud?

EDIT: VVM is a male you fool.

 

Nope. Just lacking my dose of Melbourne coffee.

All fixed.

 

You mean like Star Wars (1977), written and directed by George Lucas, based on the Campbellian monomyth, cynically featuring such universally appealing elements as a band of freedom fighter underdogs resisting a tyrannical empire, a wide eyed country boy meeting a wise elder wizard and being swept up in swashbuckling adventure to save a princess?

Oh wait...

 

Out-Wocked would have worked fine, no?

 

I legitimately consider you a personal hero, JoinTheSchwarz

 

Not really. What you pointed out is that he borrowed liberally from existing canon. What I criticized is a near clinical focus on consciously replicating story elements that have proven highly profitable. A simple example can help us distinguish the two cases.

Mother! was a sort of weird retelling of well-known parts of the Bible. It was also an a box office failure. By contrast, Thor 3 is a film which, despite being about a literal mythological figure, deviates significantly from these story points to bank towards elements that Marvel has found commercially successful: A joking/irreverent tone, a quip-ready protagonist, etc. This, even though it violates not only the inspiring material but the characterization found in the actual previous films and the plot they seemed to be setting up for.

 

It's not an accident that I ended my post on Wocky's catchphrase, detective doofus.

 

It was...... different.

I didn't like it, but I didn't hate it.

Johnson certainly made some radical decisions.
It both advanced the story & ended with much being the same.

Everyone was good in it, especially Hamill & Driver.

Lots of jokes, sometimes too much humour.

 

I have seen this movie. There is not "too much" humour.

 

Having had some more time to digest what I saw, I have to change my impressions. I no longer think it was merely good, but in fact very good.

Spoiler

I think this one is going to be remembered as the TESB of the sequel trilogy. It takes what was established in TFA and adds layers to it, elaborating and innovating in a number of very satisfying ways. As a matter of fact, I think it innovates in many respects that are admirable and impressively daring. In terms of new story beats that we haven't seen before, in terms of world building, characterisation and in the sense that it has a running thematic throughline that I don't think any of the movies have ever had before.

Much like TESB, all characters are given their moments to shine here, but beyond that they also grow and are drawn with richer colour than what I think we're used to from Star Wars. I liked that the story team were willing to tread so much new ground here, but at the same time, once it had wet my appetite for all of these innovations, I was disappointed that there wasn't even more of it.

I'm not yet sure if I like it better than TFA, but it's up there with the best. Top four, I'd say.

 

I preferred TFA, as a first reaction.