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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

JCC Embrace The FU - Formerly the STAR WARS IS BAD thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by -polymath-, Oct 30, 2012.

  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    My take on the Force is that it is an energy field that flows through all living things, surrounds us, binds us and holds the galaxy together. Thanks old Ben Kenobi. And I like the juxtaposition of it controlling our actions and obeying our commands; I see far more of the latter, and those who are Force sensitive have an obligation to learn to use that power for good, although like any power, it's tempting to use it for evil.

    That's why I take a lot of issue with Kylo Ren holding a ****ing melted mask and complaining about "feeling the call to the light." I wish the mask had responded with something from "And the problem is...?" To "I was redeemed, you idiot."

    Ender summed up how I feel about "grey" aspects. Nope, right behavior and wrong behavior are actually things, and "a certain point of view" is bull****.

    As far as Han...he's a cynic, and I like that about him. His interactions with the Alliance made him less cynical.
     
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  2. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    Yeah, everyone knows a real Grey Force user would be forced to conclude that any action of the Force would be viewed through (and therefore reinforce) the Light-Dark paradigm and consequently the only true rebellion is the true violence: doing nothing whatsoever. They would have many papers published in Jedi journals, and from time to time their statements would be treated by hip Jedi intelligentsia HoloNews as bold and definitive. Periodically someone would point out that the positioning of opposition to the paradigm as correct action is itself a moral stance, to which the response would be they never viewed the Light-Dark paradigm as immoral, merely an extent structure obscuring our access to Force metaphysical value judgements.

    Then Kylo Ren stabs them.
     
  3. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    Honestly, when you read or hear the philosophy of Grey Jedi like Jolee or Kreia it's hard not to imagine them in a fedora talking about the virtues of neutrality and how "both sides" are bad. People say Kreia is a well written character but to me she's waist deep into wew lad territory.
     
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  4. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    I maintain it stems from the console peasants who played KOTOR and wanted to be heroic whilst using Sith powers. Unreasonably so, but so be it.
     
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  5. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    I was one of those, back in 2004 when I first started video games.

    Later on when I played KOTOR on PC as an adult I started "role playing" and having my light side characters stick to light side powers, etc.
     
  6. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    To be fair I always thought the arbitrary roping off of Force powers was a bit obnoxious but I came from a background of Ultima teaching me that I'm the goddamn Avatar and I'll cast whatever the **** I want.

    And to a lesser extent Betrayal at Krondor telling me I could cast whatever spells matched my really cheesy cosplay.
     
  7. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Yes, it is arbitrary that lightning is considered inherently bad (who came up with that anyway?) but not chopping off someone's limbs.
     
  8. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    Well you see when you channel the awesome power of negative ions you have to draw on the seething seas of your inner hatred, whereas if you peacefully decapitate an enemy you do it out of the goodness of your heart.
     
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    I mean, yeah, it's arbitrary, but when you're coming up with the rules of your magic system in your fictional universe, at some point you just decide "x is one thing, y is the other."
     
  10. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    Oh, sure, and obviously if you're participating in that fictional universe you're agreeing to its conceits.

    But there is sound game/universe design and then there is my deep desire to break combat systems wide open. :p
     
  11. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    I don't see why it's necessary to say "x Force power is bad and y Force power is good and ****ing mind control is neutral for some reason." Can't context be the most important thing?
     
  12. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    Mechanical incentives/rewards for pursuing hardliner options the player might not otherwise explore. Lightning aside the films have never really portrayed Force powers as being particularly tied to the Light-Dark thing.

    I... want to say the Dark Forces II expansion pack single and multiplayer actually did let everyone pick from everything, but I can't remember for sure.
     
  13. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Ender was up there arguing that game mechanics apply to the wider universe, and you and Vivec seemed to be saying the same thing. Arbitrary grouping in a video game to make the system work is fine, but I don't like grouping Force powers just because WEG or something said so. :p
     
  14. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    I guess where I'm coming from is a uselessly contradictory melange of broad agreement with you, some understanding of why they rope things off in the games while thinking it can be a little irksome, token acknowledgement that using Force lightning actually does seem to follow a Light-Dark rule that maybe everything else doesn't (though now that I'm thinking about it has anyone other than Palpatine ever used it? Maybe it's just something he invented.), and a lot of pent up eye-rolling at the specific section of the fandom Ender is taking potshots at.
     
  15. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Jedi uses the force for knowledge and defence, never for attack.

    So I mean, I'm trying to envision a scenario where using lightning to barbeque something isn't an attack. Defence? No. It's hurting them. Cooking a steak? Please.
     
  16. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

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    Aug 16, 2002
    Again, chopping off people's limbs-- an action that can cause immediate agony and a lifetime of pain-- is morally distinct?
     
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  17. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    That's just a crit. Zam and Ponda probably were carrying existing crits with them.
     
  18. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    It's not Obi-Wan's fault the GM required him to use a +10 Limb Removal crystal when he built his lightsaber.
     
  19. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    Well, I don't think this is a case of "good" and "bad.' It just is. Lighting draws from the part of the Force that embodies passion and giving into emotion while mind trick doesn't. The Jedi have decided that the former is the 'Dark Side.' Gravity affects mass, not charge. If tomorrow I showed up saying "things that affect mass are the dark side," that doesn't make gravity evil. Remember, in the Star Wars universe, the force is a real thing with real properties, not religious belief on something that nobody ever interacts with.

    If chopping off limbs were a force power, it would probably be dark side. But it's not a force power.
     
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  20. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001


    Do you even FFG brah?

    Ligthsaber has a Crit 1, and if they put a fancy hilt on the saber it's auto +1 advantage meaning basically, a free crit.
     
  21. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jul 13, 2008
    No I actually don't FFG; how's the gameplay flow?
     
  22. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

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    Sep 19, 2000
    I don't think about the Force too much because it will make me realize what nonsense it is. But, since you're all discussing it - I don't think the Force Lightning has anything to do with the intention behind its use. I think it's a result from tapping into anger to drum up heftier powers. The "quicker, more seductive" way. The GFFA combat version of yelling.
     
  23. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

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    Apr 17, 2006
    It's funny, in Avatar: The Last Airbender, lightning is something you achieve by holding emotional balance, but in Star Wars, it's giving into raw emotion. An interesting dichotomy in philosophy between the two stories.
     
  24. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Aug 11, 2004
    I could support that theory were it not for Count Dooku's "meh, whatever" face when using it.
     
  25. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

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    Sep 19, 2000
    Who is Count Dooku?
     
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