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Topic:
That time of year
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hal9k1
Title: Tucson FF
Webmaster and 501st Liaison
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
5/22/07 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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[quote=dialswiftjustice]thanks Damian!
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Damian http://www.danzelmo.com 501st #rs Dz+Tr+Tb +Id - 4709 http://www.TucsonFanForce.com (Webmaster) Why anime? Name something that has come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years that is original
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Jada
Title: Chapter Rep
Charlotte, NC
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
5/31/07 11:55am
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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I have a question for the candidates.
How much money do you think the Chapter Representative spends on average for TFF related expenses each month?
After you answer it I'd like cathiecat to respond with examples of what she has spent.
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Ward 316 | Proud member of Donkey Squad! Honey, you forgot your pants! ~ TK-2970  DZ-5232 Old Mother Tusken Carolina Garrison Charlotte Regional Representative http://www.heroes4heroes.org
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dialswiftjustice
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/31/07 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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that will take some thought, and Ill post my answer before the end of the day, Im running into briefing right now,
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Funniest things heard while trooping:
"Your not Darth Vader!" Kid looking at the Tie Pilot
"There's no robot bug in Star Wars!" Kid to Tie Pilot
"Oh! You're hard!" Woman after hugging a Stormtrooper
myspace.com/tucsontrooper
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firstsonofsolo
Title: TFF President
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
5/31/07 11:29pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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Alot more than we know! In the beginning it was alot I think a couple hundred dollars a month! After ink, paper and laminates and not even including transportation I would say right now around $100 a month nowthis does NOT include costs of maintaining any websites. Alot of money is spent on "consumables" and a handful of one time expenses which may or may not come up to the new CR.
PS I still do not think we need a treasurer.........hehehe
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Chris Jackson TFF CR Jango Fett BH-2244 "Do or do not there is no try" ~ Master Yoda http://www.tucsonfanforce.com/
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KickingnScreaming
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
6/1/07 11:34am
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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I would like to voice an opinion on this question.
If we are talking about the CR (right now and beyond) isn't this a relative figure?
Other than paper products for buisness cards, flyers etc that are NEEDED, aren't all other cost TOTALLY dependent on how much the CR WANTS to spend. Granted, I don't know a lot about the position but what costs other than paper products are there?
Damian already takes care of the TFF website out of the goodness of his heart, so the CR doesn't cover that.
If there was anyone other than the two candidates already mentioned who wanted to run for the CR position, I would hate for them to read this post and be put off because it implys that there is great personal cost to them as CR.
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"I'm just a simple woman, trying to make my way through the universe"
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dialswiftjustice
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
6/1/07 11:41am
Subject:
RE: That time of year
- Date Edited:
6/1/07 11:56am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
dialswiftjustice
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Jada posted:
I have a question for the candidates.
How much money do you think the Chapter Representative spends on average for TFF related expenses each month?
After you answer it I'd like cathiecat to respond with examples of what she has spent.
I know Cat has spent muich more money than most members realize, and it is all greatly appreciated. But the problem with this question is that it tries to make us forcast that amount which is truly impossible. I know Cat spent money on every event we held, but the amount varied from food at meetings on months where there were no events to much more, like the toy drive and food drive where we made posterboard banners using art supplies etc. The problem is that the money used changed per event. Id also like to point out that the money spent was all voluntary. No where in the TFF boards have I found anything that said a CR MUST spend money in the position.
However I know I will, and am willing to do it, funds permitting, there is no possible way to predict how much each month one would spend.
PS.......I still think we need a treasurer for the one purpose outlined in my above posts
-----signature-----
Funniest things heard while trooping:
"Your not Darth Vader!" Kid looking at the Tie Pilot
"There's no robot bug in Star Wars!" Kid to Tie Pilot
"Oh! You're hard!" Woman after hugging a Stormtrooper
myspace.com/tucsontrooper
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cathiecat
Title: Tuscon FF Historian
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
6/1/07 6:13pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
- Date Edited:
6/1/07 6:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
cathiecat
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money becomes an issue of doing what is right. If we promise to have snacks at an event or meeting then someone has to see to it that what was promised is there. I can not tell you the times I ran next door or sent Jake to a store to pick up food because someone forgot they were supposed to be bringing something. (this has not happened in a while, it has happened in the past, I am merely giving examples, not pointing fingers)
If the group votes to do something that costs money and when the money is collected there is not enough because members forget to turn in money.. someone has to make up the difference and on occasion that someone never gets paid back.
Every time we have charity drives we have costs for those drives... the set up, signs, markers, misc. whatever.. those things always have to be paid for.. they don't magically show up out of thin air.
now then.. I am not bringing this up to complain.. I am bringing it up because it was mentioned.. please know that as CR unless you plan on getting other members to foot the bill for these expenses you will be paying them out of your own pocket each month.. and they may not seem like much to you.. but believe me.. they add up to a lot.. I never saved receipts, and Jake is upset with me for not saving receipts.. but I never took on the job of CR to do that..
Speaking of....to be honest I accepted the job of CR because I thought I was going to be in a nice group of fun loving Star Wars people that wanted to get together to enjoy movies, games, book clubs, model making, prop building, fan fiction, various types of outings, each others company and the occasional grass roots organized charity drive, which is what most of the other Fan Force clubs are. Not the machine we have turned into.
I myself am looking for someone that can do what I failed to do.. which is get the fan force back on the right track to becoming what a fan force is supposed to be, I tried and was unable to get the point across of what Fan Force is.. Certainly we have a large influx of costumers in the Tucson Fan Force and as that is for our fan force it has to be a big part of what we do for fun. (though I wonder how much fun it is sometimes with all the dissention) however.. we have more members now, in fact there are enough members of this fan force now that want other things out of being in the fan force, we want things that we see other fan forces enjoying.. important to remember we the non costumers gave the costumers what they wanted, even those that were not costumers, made costumes to be sure we would have our numbers to fill what was needed for events and hold our own and make a good showing.. now we would like it if you would please give us the same respect.. we want activities and functions that do not involve costuming.. Please note.. this does not mean that if there is an activity going on and you are not interested in it you have to attend, you don't, nor should you, however you also should not say no, you can't have your event because we don't have the numbers to support said event, it only takes two or three people to have an activity, we don't need the whole fan force showing up to make an activity worth while. We started RPG with Mike, Kat, Myself, and John leading us. We have grown from there.. but I dare say Mike would say he loved it just as much when we were at our smallest. I know I would not care if we had a game night and only I showed up.. at least we had it and we advertised it and with time eventually people will show up.. how do you think we grew the group in the first place. When we first started it amounted to me going to coffee with JamesMorbidia. Then on another day I would meet Frankie and work on Props and Jake joined us. Then another time it was back to JamesMorbida, Jada and myself. You don't have to have a huge turnout of every single member to make something work, if you have one or two members willing to attempt an activity then you run with it and you don't have to shelve it because there isn't a large group of people willing to show up. We only need large numbers for those big events that require large numbers to pull off... not the little activities that bring joy to people to just show up and enjoy. I just hope that this finally starts hitting home.. because so far it has not.. it seems if it does not have a bucket or a cape attached to it... it is tossed in the trash by this group.. and it is rather sad.
if you were at CIV and you met Dajuan then you know what it is, for those of you that were not there...she brought a book of what fan force is and showed pictures of fan force groups having a good time and many members of different fan forces were there to answer questions about what it is to be a fan force member. The one thing I/we heard over and over and over again...... , it goes back to simply this one statement... We are not a costuming group.
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" I don't know where you get your delusions laser brains" "Why you low-down, stuck-up, half-witted, scruffy-looking nerf-herder" "you came in that thing. Your braver than I thought." http://www.tucsonfanforce.com
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thatsMISTERwookiee
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
6/1/07 10:04pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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Wow. 
As someone who would qualify under the heading of "costumer", I am really curious as to what functions/activities/get-togethers that the costumers shot down and wouldn't let non-costumers do/attend/perform. I am also curious as to what kind of "props" "non-costumers" would want to build.
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dialswiftjustice
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
6/1/07 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
- Date Edited:
6/1/07 10:38pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
dialswiftjustice
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Personally I disagree with you Cat. Yes we took on alot of cotuming events, but we never avertised ourselves as a costuming group, and the get togethers of fan force members outside of costumed events never stopped. Frank Damian and I met for lunch the other day, RPG has grown as you said, and I know you and Cheryl get together occasionanaly too, Frank and I were talking about getting together a movie night for Pirates, but because of C4 we postponed it, Maybe Transformers, then Fanboys, as a couple of examples. I never got the impression the non costumed events stopped, and we were anything other than a fan club that had events, a few of them required costumes for the extra attention and promotion. I also don't see why we absolutely have to follow some preconcieved model as to what a Fan Force should be. Why do we have to follow Dajuan's model if our Fan Force is active, fun, and members are enjoying themselves with the events we do have costumed or not? To me you are making it sound like the costumers have created some kind of clique and are opposing the non costumed. I jsut dont see this when we all still get together in social settings as friends for RPG, or just something as simple as lunch (for example).
I understand it strayed from your idea of what it should be, but in regards to your statement here:
Speaking of....to be honest I accepted the job of CR because I thought I was going to be in a nice group of fun loving Star Wars people that wanted to get together to enjoy movies, games, book clubs, model making, prop building, fan fiction, various types of outings, each others company and the occasional grass roots organized charity drive, which is what most of the other Fan Force clubs are. Not the machine we have turned into.
How have we become a Machine? I cant agree since we acually have no costumed events onthe horizon for a couple of months or more. Yes last year was busy, but that as last year, and as we can already see, every year will bring different new events a schedules
Also, the feeling you projected was excitement when I brought vader to the group, and he was requested at every public event. Im personally kind of shocked at tthe sudden change in opionion abutt he direction of the group since, up until recently, you seemed to wholeheartedly support costumed events. .
I see the Fan Force as strong, flourishing, and we were all still friends and on good terms despite the occasional argument (which is bound to happen in any group with multiple opinions). I wouldnt want to be CR if it was not a fun group. I wouldn't want to be CR if someone came and told me, "you guys are doing it wrong this is how it should be," when we are all doing exactly what we want as a group, AND HAVING FUN DOING IT. I never got the impression costumed meembers were disprespecting other members.
Cat, a week ago you told me the Tucson Fan Force was an example to other Fan Forces. You're right we are not a costuming group and the members who are with us without costumes can testify to that (Amber,Michele,Vangarian,Timstephens etc.) If I am elected CR, I want to increase the fun social gatherings, but I also want to continue to be as strong in our Fan Force as we are now!
-----signature-----
Funniest things heard while trooping:
"Your not Darth Vader!" Kid looking at the Tie Pilot
"There's no robot bug in Star Wars!" Kid to Tie Pilot
"Oh! You're hard!" Woman after hugging a Stormtrooper
myspace.com/tucsontrooper
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Mugen
Title: Tucson FanForce
Props Expert
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/1/07 10:33pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
- Date Edited:
6/1/07 10:45pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Mugen
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Cat, I love you and have supported everything you stand for...but this I cannot... It really hurts my feelings that you would think things are as you say they are...look at our pics of past excursions...ask our members...they will tell you... I thought we WERE a fun loving and fruitfull fan group. I personally like all of our members, and we dont need costumes to do group activities....we have done TONS of things that was just us...we have pictures of them to prove it. Tombstone, Christmas Gift exchange, Movie nights, Order 66 meets, our Montly meetings...granted I cant go all the time because I work on Sat and Sundays...but Id like to be there, (and bring tacos for all to enjoy)..we have done eat outs..(remember IHOP?)road trips to Phx, needless to say we HAVE done non costumed events and we hope do do more, and more...I just dont understand where this is coming from. I love this group and the things that we do, the people in it, and our activities... we just have to sit back and reflect on the things that we have done and remember that they were FUN... Lets get this show on the road and become a powerhouse fun club....just like we had envisioned,...just like we ARE! 
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"SITH" (thats all you need to know)
TC/CC 8991 Az501st.com
SITH > JEDI
Evil will always win because Good is DUMB!
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firstsonofsolo
Title: TFF President
Registered:
Feb '06
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Date Posted:
6/1/07 11:49pm
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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OK here we go..........
Lets step back from this whole discussion for a moment.....
Lets look how it started. Hope asked a question, her question was aimed to let the candidates now what to expect to to convince myself to create an office of treasurer. Dustin is already on the thought of that so he needs no convincing.
Now lets look at both sides. We are the Tucson Fan Force The key word here is WE and yes we do public events IN COSTUME and yes we advertise this. There is nothing wrong with advertising it this way for publicity because it is a great way to advertise our group and get them to come see us.
What we lack is the ability to keep the people we attract by scaring them into thinking they must costume. No dont get upset I am not saying we do it this way but it is perception and really look at us from the outside looking in.
I got a chance to meet Dajuan last weekend and on a day that she herself was in costume....Wearing Star Wars pajamas and a pink bath robe that said "Robe Squadron" on the back. There is nothing wrong with costuming but it should not be the only direction we have which in many cases over the past few months WE all agree on If we didnt we wouldnt have a thread about it!!!!
We all want the same goal here as a group, we really do and if I am not mstaken that goal is growth and that is not going to happen by just doing costumed events but we know this and acknowledge it and thats where it starts.
I believe in the ned fighting about it is going to break us but finding a middle ground is not always easy especially in such a diverse group. Sometimes we all need to swallow a little bit of our pride and try something new. If it works great if not we still tried.
We as costumers ask and expect alot out of the group and really forget what the group does for us. I know I spent 13 hours in costume without a wrangler. That hurt! There is only one cotumer here that I know of that knows the consequences and the pains of sacrificing cotuming and that is Dustin.
The non costumers need to respect that we are the #1 advertising we have as agroup at least for the moment and when they are able to help us we very much appreciate the sacrifices they have and do give.
Cat has really bitten her tongue on certain things that she felt strongly against or was wanting for that matter.
Simply put besides growth I think another drive we need is to find that middle ground or we will in fact fail because as a group and only as a group do we stand strong.
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Chris Jackson TFF CR Jango Fett BH-2244 "Do or do not there is no try" ~ Master Yoda http://www.tucsonfanforce.com/
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hal9k1
Title: Tucson FF
Webmaster and 501st Liaison
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
6/2/07 12:31am
Subject:
RE: That time of year
- Date Edited:
6/2/07 12:34am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
hal9k1
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Please correct me if I’m misinterpreting this, I'm looking for clarification.
Pertaining to the funds I believe she is trying to get across that the CR covers all the little things that get forgotten about or left behind in the shuffle. Basically taking care of the group behind the scenes in a way that is so transparent nobody even notices or sees it.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Cat is referring to the costuming functions take up more scheduling, meeting and discussion time and get more attention than anything else by far. Also costumed events are at best a secondary function of a Fan Force and not it's primary function. Thus in reference to costuming within a fan force its ill balanced.
As far as the machine goes. Again, I’m guessing it's the charity events? From her point of view that is so much in the forefront of the TFF that is almost a burden to plan and execute and not a fun relaxed TFF event.
Now this DOES come from me and I will back Cat up in that I have heard some members that did not want to do costumes but feel that they had to make costumes to fit in with the rest of the group. Also, I have heard from members that the planning and scheduling of costumed event take up most of a meeting, ill balanced. We have all seen potential members come to a meeting to never return because they were overwhelmed when we discussed costumed events. Maybe we need to plan costumed events separate from standard TFF meetings?
Some people went to RPG and never came back or attended a meeting and never came back.
They may stay or leave for various reasons. It’s not all costuming but from observation it's a larger part in retaining members, acquiring new ones, or scaring them away. Like it or not costuming events have become a part of the TFF and, in my opinion, one of our stronger attributes in the community.
It's quite simple. Want to costume, do it. Don't want to do a costume, don't. This is all voluntary and for fun. If you your wear a Jedi robe, armor, or a t-shirt or never do an charity event at all does not change the fact that we are ALL part of the Tucson Fan Force and share a common interest.
Having said that I AM a costumer, and very proud of it. I’m also a fan of the non costume events and have taken part of those as well. There is a balance to be made here and it does not have to cause any issues in the TFF unless we as individuals within a larger group make it so. I personally think our diversity makes us stronger as a whole.
Now this is where I really piss some people off... Cat has obviously felt this way for some time; you can see it in her post. She "bit her tong" and did what she thought was best for the group as CR. She is entitled to her opinion (as we all are) and deserves our respect and support for being the elected CR for the last two years, doing what she thought was best for the group, and resurrecting the Tucson Fan Force regardless of how you feel about her previous post.
IMHO
-----signature-----
Damian http://www.danzelmo.com 501st #rs Dz+Tr+Tb +Id - 4709 http://www.TucsonFanForce.com (Webmaster) Why anime? Name something that has come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years that is original
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KickingnScreaming
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
6/2/07 1:00am
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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Would it be more comfortable for those not interested in costumed events to discuss them at the end of the meetings? that way those not interested would not have to sit thru the discussion. follow ups could be done by the event coordinator or on the event thread?
It seems to me that if some members feel costuming is taking over the group (even if it is the minority) there should be definite steps taken to ensure that their feelings are considered. Having said that, members that feel that way should speak up and let their voices by heard. Having said that,  those that voice their opinions and desires should feel safe in doing so without being attacked.
I don't think anyone is attacking anyone in this instance, I feel it is more people being shocked at a revelation and trying to understand it. I think the potential for turbulance is there if we don't take a second to step back from it.
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"I'm just a simple woman, trying to make my way through the universe"
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Mugen
Title: Tucson FanForce
Props Expert
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/2/07 10:35am
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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all points are very valid. I agree with what everyone has said here...and I hope that this group will flourish and have the fun it is entitled to, because with all of our members...we can achieve a comprimise and have a spectacular time doing all things, costumed or no. I truly care about all of you, and the last thing I ever wanted to do is hurt someones feelings..I'd just like to see us be an unstoppable Fan Force group, with all our bases covered with everyone's feelings considered. Cat I am with you homegirl, and dont bite your toungue let it out for the world to hear! Thats why we are friends..to help one another.
-----signature-----
"SITH" (thats all you need to know)
TC/CC 8991 Az501st.com
SITH > JEDI
Evil will always win because Good is DUMB!
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hal9k1
Title: Tucson FF
Webmaster and 501st Liaison
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
6/2/07 11:02am
Subject:
RE: That time of year
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KickingnScreaming posted:
Would it be more comfortable for those not interested in costumed events to discuss them at the end of the meetings? that way those not interested would not have to sit thru the discussion. follow ups could be done by the event coordinator or on the event thread?
It seems to me that if some members feel costuming is taking over the group (even if it is the minority) there should be definite steps taken to ensure that their feelings are considered. Having said that, members that feel that way should speak up and let their voices by heard. Having said that, those that voice their opinions and desires should feel safe in doing so without being attacked.
I don't think anyone is attacking anyone in this instance, I feel it is more people being shocked at a revelation and trying to understand it. I think the potential for turbulance is there if we don't take a second to step back from it.
I really don't think any attacking was occurring, but unless we all keep an open mind and remember this is supposed to be fun any issues (regardless of what they are) can be resolved to accommodate all members wants and desires.
I do think things need to be discussed before the next election; it’s not fair to either candidate to have to deal with this if it’s not resolved before someone takes office. Both CR candidates want (as well as the rest of the group) new members. We need to get any issues and problems ironed out before we can accomplish that. It just does not look appealing or inviting to potential new members that come to a meeting or a function if petty squabbles are occurring or functions and events are not well balanced.
In the interest of being fair and open: So far we have only really heard from the costumers, unless you (people that want change) want to let things keep going as they have been you guys the disagree or want change have to speak up. The next CR won't know what is best for the group unless you voice your opinions. You can't complain after the fact if you don't say anything when you have the optimum chance.
Along the line a few people may disagree and get their feelings bruised. This is just the nature of a diverse democracy. You can’t please and accommodate everyone, but you can do what is best for the group as a whole. The next CR has a hard job ahead, it’s not a popularity contest and it’s not the office that garners the most admiration at times. But hard decisions need to be made to bring the TFF into 2008 and beyond.
-----signature-----
Damian http://www.danzelmo.com 501st #rs Dz+Tr+Tb +Id - 4709 http://www.TucsonFanForce.com (Webmaster) Why anime? Name something that has come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years that is original
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